Confused about WOF

Wow, thanks for the blessings!

Yeah, it use to bother me when people talked about WOFers but it has just made me more sure in what and who I believe in. Probably everyone has a different definition of WOF means. Some criticize b/c they say we don't put enough emphasis on the Holy Spirit while others say we put too much.

You have to decide for yourself what you believe. There are plenty of folks who don't believe one sentence that's in the Bible and we're not influenced by them to not believe the Word. So why let others negatively impact us?

Sometimes when there are threads against WOFers - as it got to be in the Secrets thread, I just have to post - I'm SF, Charmastic ND, grew up in the PH church. You've got just as much right to put your cards on the table so to speak for WOFers as they do against. I got to this point - why am I letting someone who I don't even know, don't even know if they even try to do what God's Word says for us to do, impact me regarding this basic belief system?

To me - WOFers believe what the Word of God says. Why do I need someone's approval to stand firmly on that fact? Who do I want to pray for me? Someone who believes the Word with their whole heart - someone who believes "By His stripes, I am healed" and "no weapon formed against me will prosper." Of course, they've got to know the Word to pray it and you know WOFers have the faith to believe it.

Pentecostal.

I'll check back later also and see if I can help any.

GreenMunchkin said:

Hi again

Humm... have been reading lots, and something is worrying me a lot. What's this about us being Gods?? Did Kenneth Copeland really say that? Cos have always had a lot of repsect for him, but surely that's outright blasphemy?

It's all this "He said, she said" "They're right" "No they're not" stuff that's making all of this so horribly confusing

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Apparently you've been on the anti-word faith sites or "heresy hunter" sites as we call them.

No Kenneth Copeland does not claim we are gods, its an "in Christ" teaching regarding our authority as believers and that God made us in His image to carry out His will on earth.

Copelands teachings have been twisted, misquoted and taken out of context by those that do not like him or us, don't bother listening to those nitwits.

You state you've always respected Rev. Copeland so why would you let some anonymous writer on an anti-faith site spin your head around.

Do yourself a favor and stay off those sites unless your doctrinally sound with what you believe it will just continue to confuse you.

Heres a good site that counters a lot of the common criticism we receive by our own Pastor Troy Edwards.

http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/

tturt said:

Wow, thanks for the blessings!

Yeah, it use to bother me when people talked about WOFers but it has just made me more sure in what and who I believe in. Probably everyone has a different definition of WOF means. Some criticize b/c they say we don't put enough emphasis on the Holy Spirit while others say we put too much.

You have to decide for yourself what you believe. There are plenty of folks who don't believe one sentence that's in the Bible and we're not influenced by them to not believe the Word. So why let others negatively impact us?

Sometimes when there are threads against WOFers - as it got to be in the Secrets thread, I just have to post - I'm SF, Charmastic ND, grew up in the PH church. You've got just as much right to put your cards on the table so to speak for WOFers as they do against. I got to this point - why am I letting someone who I don't even know, don't even know if they even try to do what God's Word says for us to do, impact me regarding this basic belief system?

To me - WOFers believe what the Word of God says. Why do I need someone's approval to stand firmly on that fact? Who do I want to pray for me? Someone who believes the Word with their whole heart - someone who believes "By His stripes, I am healed" and "no weapon formed against me will prosper." Of course, they've got to know the Word to pray it and you know WOFers have the faith to believe it.

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what she said.

What you read about wof not being into the Holy Spirit was from the SF forum I suspect, and isn't true. Without the Holy Spirit you can say you're healed by the stripes of Jesus till hell freezes over, but nothing is going to happen. It's the Word AND the Spirit that brings it all together. Some wofers think they are the "gardians of the wof doctrine" and don't walk in love and don't walk in the Spirit and therefore they have no idea how to get healed or delivered from fear and depression. Anyone knowing the how to's on that must be led by His Spirit, AND by the word. You can't seperate the two. Without the Holy Spirit, we are nothing, and it doesn'T matter how much so called word we know.

wof churches are having to learn to let the Spirit of God be in charge. My church knows how important worship and being led by the Spirit is, in order to preach the word with anointing and power and have signs and wonders following. It is the anointing of the Holy Spirit that breaks every yoke of bondage, and disease, and depression and fear, combined with the understanding of the word on each area.

I have believed the way the faith people aka wof do since I was 20 years old, no matte which church I was going to. It was the wof people who taught me I didn't have to ever be sick. It was the wof people who got me healed. It was the wof people who preached the word that delivered me from all fears and depression. My mind was going bonkers and now it's all peaceful, thanks to wof preaching by Kenneth and Gloria Copeland.

While Kenneth Copeland was preaching, I was healed of night time asthma, fears, and depression. I can't argue with success, and signs and wonders that have happened in my life. The ones who speak against us are sick and diseased in their body, they have fears and depression in their heads, and have no idea what peace is. You have to know what freedom is before you can understand it. If all you've ever known is being a slave, you cant' explain freedom to anyone.

added to make something more clear: disagreeing with how we believe does not mean "to speak against".

God made it clear in the bible that we are to live by faith. It's really that simple.

We are saved by faith (in Jesus Christ) - what better example of the importance of faith is there?

The typical problem with some of the WOF folks is that they over emphasize *personal* prosperity to the point of turning God into a give-me tree.. (which strikes me as a little selfish). The tithing baloney goes with this hand in glove.

As believers we are saved. We have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, our savior. When we walk with God we are often blessed. I've personally witnessed such gifts both in the physical healing realm as well as financial.

God bless.

mdaniel said:

God made it clear in the bible that we are to live by faith. It's really that simple.

We are saved by faith (in Jesus Christ) - what better example of the importance of faith is there?

The typical problem with some of the WOF folks is that they over emphasize *personal* prosperity to the point of turning God into a give-me tree.. (which strikes me as a little selfish). The tithing baloney goes with this hand in glove.

As believers we are saved. We have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, our savior. When we walk with God we are often blessed. I've personally witnessed such gifts both in the physical healing realm as well as financial.

God bless.

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I will respond to the suggestion that WoFers "emphasize personal prosperity" by directing anyone who is interested to the pole in the sticky thread I started a couple years ago:
"What is the most important WoF teaching"

136 WoFers have responded. Out of the 136 WoFers less than 4% state that prosperity is the most important WoF teaching.

Thanks
BLessings
Dids

Which is why I said *SOME*, most certainly not all. It's difficult to overstate the importance of faith. We are saved by faith and are commanded to live in faith.

Hey GreenMunchkin. I understand your dilemma, as I struggled with it too.

I grew up on Kenneth Hagin Sr., Kenneth Copeland, K.C. Price, Watchman Nee, Smith Wigglesworth, and a few others. I never knew of "camps" or anything of the sort. The thought of it all still nauseates me. I was doing some research for my Life Group (home bible studies our church has) and came across this phrase "denominational affliction". That's what denomination is, imo, to the Body of Christ... an affliction.

However I learned that these WoF'ers shared my views on healing and even studied from the same folks that I've grown up studying, and listening to. I am greatly displeased at the strife the SF forum causes. I cannot accept that everyone there is truly SF because if they were, the strife and disrespect would not be there. However I know when there's a mighty move of God, the enemy moves mightily too.

Thank you for posting your questions. You must rely on Holy Spirit to guide you. Be a seeker of truth and trust in the Word of God, and you will not be led astray easily. God Bless and we all love you!

**edit**
Forgot to state: I never knew that Prosperity was so heavily related to WoF'ers either. My main focus has always been the Power of the Holy Spirit, the Gifts, moving in the Gifts, and sharing my testimony with others, to further the Kingdom work. I think it's a falsehood to say that we truly do these things for God so that we can attain prosperity, however His word promises us health, help, power, and a place in heaven. That's all I'm looking for.

GreenMunchkin said:

Hullo... please may I ask a question or 2?

If I had to pick a "denomination", I'd say I was Word of Faith because I absolutely believe that by His stripes we are healed, and that God wants us prosper, but that we need to stand in faith to see it happening... but so many people say we're a cult, and that we don't put much focus on the Holy Spirit and that it's not even biblical?? I saw a thread about a book called "Secrets" or something... but it's Isaiah that wrote "By His stripes..." so how can it be unbiblical?

Recently, have been grappling with the "logistics" of denominations, their purpose, and the strife they seem to cause, the liberal/conservative divide, and even the debate about whether the Bible is the inerrant Word of God - which I believe it is - and it all feels very messy and ugly and loud... and am not particularly knowledgable theologically, and to be honest, have no desire to be, but for people who feel WOF isn't legitimate, why do they feel that?

Only, I was writing about all of this in my blog, andrealised, the fact is, not all of us are gonna make it into Heaven. Many of us will genuinely feel we're on the right path, then get turned away, so how do we really know?

Cos, I know the Holy Spirit guides us, but the thing about that is, people seem to feel WOF has little to do with the Holy Spirit, and also, so many people who are being led by the Holy Spirit believe different things. They all genuinely, and utterly believe what they feel in their spirit is from God... and who is anyone else to argue. But the fact is, we can't all be right.

So I just don't understand any of it, really.

I don't even know if I've asked any coherent questions in all of that... like I said, very loud and messy in my head. I'd honestly so appreciate some help, or clarification, maybe. Thank you very very much.

God bless you lots. x

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Hi GreenMunchkin

God bless you !

We believe that God means just what He says in His Word and that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever ( thats a scripture.) If He promised in His Word He would do something He won't take it back and change His mind. He keeps His word. So you are right. We have to stand in faith on His Word and He will bring His promise to pass.

Even tho some may doubt, we know God's Word is true because God cannot lie. It's the enemy that tries to confuse us and get us to doubt.

Many times people criticize things they do not understand. Sometimes they don't even listen to preachers and teachers long enough to try to understand what is said. They only hear a part of it. Aand you cant explain everything one one or two sundays. I could listen to someone for 10 minutes and make it sound like he said something he didn't if I didn't hear it all.

It reminds me of a preacher on radio and he was telling how bad it had been, the trials the sickness, cancer. Everything he was going through. Some prayed and called him. They said No its not true- where did they get the idea he had cancer? He was not sick. He didn't say that. Yet they said he did. Well as it turned out, some did not hear the first sentence of the broadcast. He stated He was reading what SOMEONE ELSE had shared with him. Do you see my point? Now I have even listen to someone for alittle while at times and think 'why is he saying that? I know he does not believe that! But if I watch the rerun, He was saying--- PEOPLE say .....or OUR CRITICS say...." etcetc. So you get what I mean. And its sometime taken all out of context what is said too.

When we are saved Jesus gives us authority over the enemy, satan. We have power in prayer and in the name of Jesus, and the blood of Jesus. Greater is He who is in us than he that is in the world. We are to be like Jesus, imitate Him, act like Him, talk and renew out mind to think like Him. You know that saying "What would Jesus do?" Whatever He would do in a situaiton thats what we should do. If we are not acting like God who would we be acting like? We would be acting, thinking and talking like the devil! We dont want to act like that! LOL

We do believe we need the Holy Spirit. To know we are on the right path we need to always go by what His word says. He speak to us thru His word AND His Spirit. But He always speak in line with His Word. So if we think He is speaking to us and it contradicts with the Bible , then its not God but the enemy trying to trick us. The Word is always first place in making decisions. But that does not mean we don't need the Holy Spirit. He gives us power to do what God has called us to do and we can't do it with Him.

I want to add some teachers may explain things better than others in a way they can understand, where some I may not understand as well.

And by the way,your questions are not annoying. We will be glad to talk to you anytime, or at least I WOULD!

Certainly agree with most everything that's been posted so far.

WOFer's to me means we believe God's Word and have the faith to believe God stands behind His Word = He doesn't lie.

Sometimes when I read those other sites, I'm wondering where do they get these ideas about us from?

What's even more interesting is that act like we don't believe in the Trinity, Christ Jesus' sacrifice & resurrection, etc.

What does being WOF mean to you - other than what's already been posted?

I don't consider myself to be 'denominational', but I find myself sharing beliefs with the WOF movement/denomination. I also read books & listen to preaching by primarily WOF teachers, and it's grown me more than anything else.
I find it strange that people think that we have little to do with the Holy Spirit. Come to one of my church services and you'll think you walked in to the abode of the Holy Spirit!

What you're encountering (and what we are exposing) is a religious spirit that's moving through the global church. It aims to put believers into boxes, and have them full of pride so they think that they are the 'right' denomination, and start a mud-slinging competition (much like the NZ government). Non-believers see this, and they then get hardened and resistant to Christianity.
Am I right? Hmm?

Don't be pressured to 'pick' a denomination. Don't get all theological.
Start (or cultivate) a relationship with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Ask God to reveal Himself to you, then read bits of the Bible.

There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. 2 Timothy 3:1-5

Yes!

GreenMunchkin said:

Hullo... please may I ask a question or 2?

If I had to pick a "denomination", I'd say I was Word of Faith because I absolutely believe that by His stripes we are healed, and that God wants us prosper, but that we need to stand in faith to see it happening... but so many people say we're a cult, and that we don't put much focus on the Holy Spirit and that it's not even biblical?? I saw a thread about a book called "Secrets" or something... but it's Isaiah that wrote "By His stripes..." so how can it be unbiblical?

Recently, have been grappling with the "logistics" of denominations, their purpose, and the strife they seem to cause, the liberal/conservative divide, and even the debate about whether the Bible is the inerrant Word of God - which I believe it is - and it all feels very messy and ugly and loud... and am not particularly knowledgable theologically, and to be honest, have no desire to be, but for people who feel WOF isn't legitimate, why do they feel that?

Only, I was writing about all of this in my blog, andrealised, the fact is, not all of us are gonna make it into Heaven. Many of us will genuinely feel we're on the right path, then get turned away, so how do we really know?

Cos, I know the Holy Spirit guides us, but the thing about that is, people seem to feel WOF has little to do with the Holy Spirit, and also, so many people who are being led by the Holy Spirit believe different things. They all genuinely, and utterly believe what they feel in their spirit is from God... and who is anyone else to argue. But the fact is, we can't all be right.

So I just don't understand any of it, really.

I don't even know if I've asked any coherent questions in all of that... like I said, very loud and messy in my head. I'd honestly so appreciate some help, or clarification, maybe. Thank you very very much.

God bless you lots. x

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Greetings in Messiah,

The problem is high-mindedness of the carnal mind, which will even be religious (whitewash). That is, pride of knowledge. When we see the bigger picture we can see that each movement in the past centuries since the being called out of "her" has been occuring, and wrong traditions she started are being overcome, that each group has had a piece or pieces of the bigger puzzle.

The problem is, those who camp out in one movement and become prideful towards others, reject others and their pieces. Pride is the culprit. Religious pride. It is not of God - it is carnal.

When a person is born of the Spirit, they do not instantly overcome the flesh (carnality). We can experience such and many other works of the Holy Spirit and the Word of Faith, and still not be completely refined in Messiah yet, still having carnality to overcome.

Carnality is always at enmity with the true Law (Word) of God and wants to do away with as much of it as possible. The new man in Messiah (spirit) must rise up as growing up in Father's image, and overcome this carnality, by the power given him in the Holy Spirit and by the Word.

As this happens, and we become more like our Father in heaven and Lord Yahshua (Jesus), we will see more of the big picture and be less resistant against other pieces of the restoration of all things spoken of by the prophets since the Beginning.

For now, we all still have some level of resistance left, some more, some less. In the bigger picture, all pieces of restoration are important and we do well to overcome the carnality that tries to hinder us from receiving more and more until we reach perfection in Messiah.

May you go forward in that perfection always, in the name above all names,

David

GreenMunchkin said:

Nooo, but it was from Wikipedia. I know it's nototriously unreliable but it's an easy entry into any topic...

Hmm, to accuse Copeland of saying that blasphemous is appalling. But, "Satan is the accuser of the brethren..."

Must be honest, there's nothing to say WOF isn't entirely legitimate, and valid, so I don't see what the problem is. In fact, it seems to be rather more grounded in the Word than "traditional" Pentacostalism.

Confused confused confused.

But thank you both very much for you help. Am grateful

God bless. x

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Can't Wikipedia be edited or flagged for misinformation? I think someone ought to get that fixed; it's highly unfair to Kenneth Copeland.