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Confused About Verse

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TrumpetMan258

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"Many are the plans in a human heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails."
-Proverbs 19:21

This verse confuses me. Is it saying that no matter how much we screw up our lives, God's will will always prevail? That can't be right, right? Can someone please explain this verse a little more to me? Thanks.
 
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Dmckay

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The question of how we can know and be sure of G-d's Will has been debated since Adam in the Garden. Probably the best way to understand it in light of this verse and your question is this. There are two aspects to G-d's will, G-d's desired Will e.g. "G-d is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to eternal life." In this example from Scripture we learn that G-d would prefer that everyone be saved. However, that would make everyone puppets forcing them to do G-d's will, and going to heaven whether they want to or not. Since G-d is governed by the very attributes that make Him G-d, He cannot violate His holiness and His Justice to save everyone. The second aspect of G-d's will is His determined Will. This is what is actually going to happen. Unless we are talking about something that is specifically laid out in detail in Scriptural prophecy the only way we can know what G-d's determined will is, is after it has happened. As gopjeff said above, G-d's ultimate purpose will prevail no matter what we choose to do.

For example, Paul, writing to the Romans said that his intent was to come to them after he had taken the collection that had been gathered for the saints in Jerusalem, to Jerusalem. Paul's intent, and he knew that it was G-d's will for him to do so, was to travel to Rome as a free man as he had done on his other three missionary journeys. When Paul arrived in Jerusalem, after being warned several times by believers lead of the Holy Spirit not to go there, he was arrested. Plans were made to murder him. In Acts, we are told that Jesus appeared to Paul in his prison cell and told him that he was still going to go to Rome, just not the way he had planned.

Paul went to Rome in chains, not as a free man. But it actually worked out better. How, Paul now had a captive audience. He was chained between two members of the Praetorian guard at all times. Later, in the close of one of his epistles, Paul writes, "all the saints who are with me send you greeting, especially those of Caesar's household." As the guards rotated in their duties Paul could win them to Christ, as they went on to serve in other parts of Caesar's household they carried their new-found faith with them and told others.

Men being what we are, we are always making plans for how we think things would be best. G-d knows what is best for us and changes things to accomplish what He wills in our lives. As I look back on my life I find that invariably the things that I have said that I would never do have almost always been exactly what G-d brought to pass.
 
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johnd

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TrumpetMan258 said:
"Many are the plans in a human heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails."
-Proverbs 19:21

This verse confuses me. Is it saying that no matter how much we screw up our lives, God's will will always prevail? That can't be right, right? Can someone please explain this verse a little more to me? Thanks.

In God's economy nothing is wasted. God uses all things even the negative to bring about the good results he desires. For example, even an unbelieving person plays a role in spreading the Gospel to a future generation if they only have children. They played an ancestral part in that family line from Adam to that believer who is one day to be born.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
 
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pnordman

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The very best book I ever read on God's will is Leslie Weatherhead's The Will of God. I believe he answers our questions about God's will. I would like to share part of a devotion I wrote:

"Thus it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish" (Matthew 18:14 NAS).



During World War II Dr. Leslie D. Weatherhead gave five talks on the will of God to his City Temple congregation in England. Fortunately for the rest of the world, they were published. Every time I hear "It's God's will," I think of this remarkable little book and how it clarified God's will for me.



Dr. Weatherhead separated God's will into three parts:

1) Intentional;

2) Circumstantial, and

3) Ultimate (ICU).



God's intentional will is for our good. This is Adam and Eve in the Garden. When God created Adam and Eve, it was His intention that they live forever and be happy. But they sinned and were expelled from Paradise.



His circumstantial will is because of the circumstances in our lives. It is within this will that we find God's permissive will. This is Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. This is Job 42:2: "I know (faith) that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted."; It is the all of Romans 8:28, that glorious rod and staff of the grieving: "We know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." I know (wisdom) I can (possibility) do (accomplishment) all things whatsoever He asks! His ultimate will is for His glory and our good. This is Christ's resurrection and our resurrection. It is us all in the New Earth.



The wonderful revelation as I read this book is that God's intentional will finally becomes His ultimate will, even as we go through the circumstances of our life.



Dr. Weatherhead gives the example of the young man in London whose intention was to be an architect but, because the war changed his circumstances, he joined the Army. At the time this was the honorable course. The young man could not control the evil circumstances of Hitler and his desire to conquer the world, but he could control his reaction to them.



As I read the book I was comforted in the fact that nothing falls outside the circle of Divine Providence:

1) the knowledge of God embraces it;

2) His power is sovereign over it;

3) His mercy holds it creatively.



The key here is God's goodness. The parent does not will evil for his or her child; neither would a perfect God will evil for His children. At the time Dr. Weatherhead gave his talks, the people in England needed desperately to know that there was a living and loving God in spite of the horror going on.



We need to understand God's will and its components before we tell the person prostrate with grief that "It's God's will." As I read this incredible treatise, I viewed us as being in God's ICU unit and God taking care of us as only He can do, no matter what our circumstances.
 
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saami

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pnordman said:
The very best book I ever read on God's will is Leslie Weatherhead's The Will of God. I believe he answers our questions about God's will. I would like to share part of a devotion I wrote:

"Thus it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish" (Matthew 18:14 NAS).

Ditto the review:thumbsup:
 
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sparkyman481

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pnordman said:
God's intentional will is for our good. This is Adam and Eve in the Garden. When God created Adam and Eve, it was His intention that they live forever and be happy. But they sinned and were expelled from Paradise.



Are you trying to say God made a mistake?

pnordman said:
The key here is God's goodness. The parent does not will evil for his or her child; neither would a perfect God will evil for His children. At the time Dr. Weatherhead gave his talks, the people in England needed desperately to know that there was a living and loving God in spite of the horror going on.

Isaiah 45:7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

pnordman said:
We need to understand God's will and its components before we tell the person prostrate with grief that "It's God's will." As I read this incredible treatise, I viewed us as being in God's ICU unit and God taking care of us as only He can do, no matter what our circumstances.

Philippians 2:1
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

John 4:34Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.John 6:38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.John 8:28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.John 12:49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.Ephesians 11 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
 
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plmarquette

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it is the arguement about our free will ....
some believe we cannot argue or refuse god that we are pre programmed to succeed or fail .... calvin and the doctrine of election / predistination

others believe we can refuse god , run away from him , like Jonah , Saul , Judas ... because of offenses , abuse , sin , worldly temptations , or pride and selfishness

the verse is saying ... are you willing to die to self , put your desires on the back burner , and do what God wants , when & where he wants it ... Mat. 6.33 , that he might take care of the rest of your life ...
 
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