Conformity or Conversion?

Seraph1m · Nov 2, 2005

While considering a number of things I have read here, over the past few weeks, I was wondering how many here believe that conformity is as important as the conviction/converstion of ones heart?

How do either line up with Isa 29:13 & Matt 15:8

Peace

moicherie · Nov 3, 2005

Paul advises Christians to be transformed by the renewing of our minds, our way of thinking which dictates our actions will change back to the way God wanted us to be in the first place. Anyone can conform does not mean a transformation/conversion experience has taken place.

PaleHorse · Nov 3, 2005

moicherie said:
Paul advises Christians to be transformed by the renewing of our minds, our way of thinking which dictates our actions will change back to the way God wanted us to be in the first place. Anyone can conform does not mean a transformation/conversion experience has taken place.

Very true. But on the other hand, and agreeing with the part I bolded in your statement, if those that have truly given their hearts over to God so that their thinking is as His, then shouldn't their collective thinking be the same? I mean, God wouldn't have two opinions on one subject.

moicherie · Nov 3, 2005

PaleHorse said:
Very true. But on the other hand, and agreeing with the part I bolded in your statement, if those that have truly given their hearts over to God so that their thinking is as His, then shouldn't their collective thinking be the same? I mean, God wouldn't have two opinions on one subject.

Maybe He does but if not He would not expect us to get 'their' (wherever their is) at the same pace which is what Christians expect other Christians to do, 'in the time of our ignorance God winks' says the Bible - if God is willing to do that if its that is truely the case, then why can't we, rather than argue our points till the end of never?

awesumtenor · Nov 3, 2005

PaleHorse said:
Very true. But on the other hand, and agreeing with the part I bolded in your statement, if those that have truly given their hearts over to God so that their thinking is as His, then shouldn't their collective thinking be the same? I mean, God wouldn't have two opinions on one subject.

Not at all... but God calls all men from varied experiences and backgrounds and uses them. There are areas where our thinking should align... but that is not across the board.

This is the reason that evangelism cannot be one size fits all. It is through the diversity of members that make up the body of Christ that the church is able to be 'all things to all men so that some might be saved'. But the key is, as Augustine put it, "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity".

In His service,
Mr. J

Princessdi · Nov 3, 2005

You mean like the Borg, all hooked up to the Collective? Then where does our God given individuality come in? Is that given up as we submit to the HOly Spirit. Does God expect His church to all look, talk, walk, think alike? Why give us a brain for thinking , reasoning for ourselves, just to eventually stop using it?

PaleHorse said:
Very true. But on the other hand, and agreeing with the part I bolded in your statement, if those that have truly given their hearts over to God so that their thinking is as His, then shouldn't their collective thinking be the same? I mean, God wouldn't have two opinions on one subject.

moicherie · Nov 3, 2005

Princessdi said:
You mean like the Borg, all hooked up to the Collective? Then where does our God given individuality come in? Is that given up as we submit to the HOly Spirit. Does God expect His church to all look, talk, walk, think alike? Why give us a brain for thinking , reasoning for ourselves, just to eventually stop using it?

True just cos we have accepted Jesus Christ some expect us to be spiritual clones hence the desire to make new converts into our 'invidual version of Adventist image'. It took me a while to get over that concept as well.
Consider this children of the same mother and father know and believe they are of the same parentage and know they are loved so does that mean all siblings should think, act and look exactly the same way?

Princessdi · Nov 3, 2005

Exactly!

moicherie said:
True just cos we have accepted Jesus Christ some expect us to be spiritual clones hence the desire to make new converts into our 'invidual version of Adventist image'. It took me a while to get over that concept as well.
Consider this children of the same mother and father know and believe they are of the same parentage and know they are loved so does that mean all siblings should think, act and look exactly the same way?

Seraph1m · Nov 4, 2005

moicherie said:
Paul advises Christians to be transformed by the renewing of our minds, our way of thinking which dictates our actions will change back to the way God wanted us to be in the first place. Anyone can conform does not mean a transformation/conversion experience has taken place.

Anyone can conform but being transformed by the renewing of our minds or, taking on the mind of Christ is the only true way to live the example Jesus left us. Or is there another way?

Seraph1m · Nov 4, 2005

awesumtenor said:
Not at all... but God calls all men from varied experiences and backgrounds and uses them. There are areas where our thinking should align... but that is not across the board.

This is the reason that evangelism cannot be one size fits all. It is through the diversity of members that make up the body of Christ that the church is able to be 'all things to all men so that some might be saved'. But the key is, as Augustine put it, "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity".

In His service,
Mr. J

Do you mean we don't have a cookie cutter gospel?

Seraph1m · Nov 4, 2005

Princessdi said:
You mean like the Borg, all hooked up to the Collective? Then where does our God given individuality come in?

Wir sind Adventus des Borg Widerstandes sind vergeblich...

Trans:We are Adventus of Borg resistance is futile

Thankfully sis, that is not how our God works and we are blessed that He does not.

KayD · Nov 4, 2005

New here, so don't beat me up too much, but what about the consideration of Isa. 1:11-20? I know, I know - context. But the whole notion of doing something just for the sake of doing it has been plaguing me for a while also - particularly with the new church year coming up and the selection of new offices. I mean, is God truly pleased when we do something without fully understanding it, or when we do it while harboring some sin in our hearts? There's a passage that says that it's not the sacrifices (or in this sense the conformity) which the Lord seeks, but a true heart worship (this is a very rough paraphrase). The Lord desire that we worship Him in spirit and in truth, not via forced obedience or ignorance.

Blessings and Happy Sabbath!

jabechler · Apr 29, 2006

Very true were are not to conform but be transformed. God s ways are not mans ways, so if conforming to what the church ascribes we should be like outside of the word or counsel of God then I say no... God in his love has given us in His word and through the spirit of prophecy direct counsel and guidance, and with the powqer of the Holy soirit we can be changed into the likeness of Christ.

Maybe to much info for the OP but look at Peter and Paul they publiclly disagree on how the message should be given but not on the message itself. The spiritual gifts given are as divers as our personalities and all useful for the commision of God. Individual yet unified.

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