Concubines

Walter Kovacs said:

I'd love to have a concubine or two.

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According to dayhiker you can.

In the NT God's intention is that we be conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus, not ancient Israel.

Does Jesus have more than one bride???

Stealth001 said:

In the NT God's intention is that we be conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus, not ancient Israel.

Does Jesus have more than one bride???

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He had one bride, the church, but made of millions of people...hmmm.

Also, we refer to God as one, yet he is three...hmmmm

Just because men of God took part in certain things doesn't mean God was "ok" with it...I mean, I am a man of God but there are things in my life that God is not "ok" with.

The OP question just doesn't make much sense to me.

Gee, Win, you should check the detail. Jethro was a Midianite, not Kenite, tho I will admit there are closely related!
Here's the chapter and verse: Dt.17:17 Furthermore, he must not marry many wives lest his affections turn aside, and he must not accumulate much silver and gold.

Yup, if a man or woman disobey's God he's a sinner. Seems to me we aren't suppose to change God word and make up sins that are sins. Jesus got pretty upset with the Pharisees when they did that! So be careful!

WinBySurrender said:

Do you not understand that is Jethro, Zipporah's father? Silly question ... obviously you don't.You can read it that way if you want. As I've just pointed out, that would be a gross error.Please show me that in the Law. Chapter and verse please. Post it here for all to read. What man does in contravention of God's Law does not prove he follows God's Law, it proves he is a sinner! We're done here.

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Jepthah burnt his daughter for an oath. Should we follow his example? Polygamy was an aberration from God's original design in the garden: one woman and one man. Jesus reaffirmed this in the Gospels. God tolerated polygamy and regulated it until the coming of Christ. Then Christ went back to Genesis and Adam and Eve as God's original plan for human marriage. Polygamy finally died off in the church, especially after the downfall of Jewish Christianity in 66 to 70 AD. Polygamy has popped up now and again in Church history, but never as a norm. It may have been more of a "norm" in the Old Testament and to a more limited extent in the NT, but it was NEVER normative. Norm means a common practice, and normative means something binding upon the faithful in all generations. The Adam and Eve narrative in Genesis and as taught by Jesus is the normative expression of marriage for the followers of Christ. Polygamy was never normative.

Armistead14 said:

We are at an impass...

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1 Timothy is written from Paul to Timothy who was residing in Ephesus and was there to instruct the church there. (1 Tim 1:3)

The church in Ephesus was gentile not jewish. Paul started missionary work at Ephesus in Acts 19 but the Jews rejected the gospel and then Paul turned to the gentiles to proclaim the gospel. In his epistle to Ephesus Paul confirms this saying in chapter 3:1 "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles..." The church in Ephesus was made up of gentiles not Jews.

I agree that Jews were known polygamist and although Roman law did not allow polygamy they were unsuccessful in policing the Jews on this subject however they discouraged it. Polygamy wasn't banned in the Jewish community until 1000 AD and although largely uncommented in the NT history tells us that polygamy was still active in the Jewish community. However the church in Ephesus was not full of Jews it was full of gentiles so polygamy should not be assumed among them as it was against roman law.

Christianity was birthed under Roman law and Christians would be counter-gospel if they choose to go against Roman law for an issue like this. I understand Christianity itself was banned however Christians were encouraged to submit to governing authorities provided they do not go against the law of Christ.

So again there is no reason to assume polygamy in this context

As for the early church...

Justin Martyr does comment that Jewish men were permitted to have four or five wives however Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Tertullian all spoke against polygamy, condemning it.

Tertullian wrote in the 2nd century that marriage is lawful, but polygamy is not saying: "We do not indeed forbid the union of man and woman, blest by God as the seminary of the human race, and devised for the replenishment of the earth and the furnishing of the world and therefore permitted, yet singly. For Adam was the one husband of Eve, and Eve his one wife, one woman, one rib."

Basil of Caesarea wrote in the 4th century of plural marriage that "such a state is no longer called marriage but polygamy or, indeed, a moderate fornication."

Augustine wrote in the 4th century, "That the good purpose of marriage, however, is better promoted by one husband with one wife, than by a husband with several wives, is shown plainly enough by the very first union of a married pair, which was made by the Divine Being Himself. and The Sacrament of marriage of our time has been so reduced to one man and one wife, as that it is not lawful to ordain any as a steward of the Church, save the husband of one wife."

dayhiker said:

Gee, Win, you should check the detail. Jethro was a Midianite, not Kenite, tho I will admit there are closely related!

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Not just closely related, the same people. Jethro was referred to as a Midianite because he lived in the Midian region. The word for Kenite in the Hebrew is Qeyniy meaning "smiths", the tribe from which the father-in-law of Moses was a member and which lived in the area between southern Palestine and the mountains of Sinai. Don't need the chapter and verse, thank you. However, I'd suggest you invest in a good lexicon so you dont' embarrass yourself like this again.

Win,
My Bible Dictionary had them as closely related but not the same. So looks like the experts have differing views.

dayhiker said:

Win,
My Bible Dictionary had them as closely related but not the same. So looks like the experts have differing views.

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Some are experts, some call themselves experts. It is the generally accepted view of most biblical historians that "Midianite" was a reference to the area from which the person was from, while "Kenite" was the name of the tribe in that region.

dayhiker said:

rgleason,
You say we didn't use scripture then say your too lazy to quote scripture! What's up with that? Actually I did make reference to Heb.11.

Anyways, welcome to CF.

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Please note there is a difference between rgleason and rgleason426, 2 different people and genders.

The fact that people in the Old Testament had concubines did not mean that God was happy with it or accepted it. The reason that God condemned sex before marriage and other related matters is that it affects a person's humanity. This doesn't mean that you become less human but you are damaged. Think about what happens to a person who takes pleasure in these sins. You can tell that they are not who they were before they did them. Something in their person just gets damaged.