• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Compassion and empathy

What is compassion?

  • An operation God imparted on the human with natural law.

  • Random chemicals reacting in the brain to cause a strange effect in humans.

  • A psycological illusion caused by societal pressure.

  • I don't know

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Chesterton

Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding
Site Supporter
May 24, 2008
26,493
21,558
Flatland
✟1,102,071.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Survival (to reproduce) is necessary to pass on your genes. "good" is the wrong word.

Then why did you post your scenario in regard to an OP about conscience?

It's not a question of good or bad so much as a question of natural selection.

There you go. Exactly.
 
Upvote 0

OphidiaPhile

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2008
2,919
188
57
Northern California
✟3,947.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
You assume that survival is good when you have no reason to;
There is no other logical answer.

You're only explaining what in fact happens (if evolution is true), while the OP wants to know why we make a quality judgment about what happens;
The how is the only part of relevance.

And genocide and euthanasia would also help some groups survive yet we find them immoral. (There, so you won't need to ask for the Godwin )
Euthanasia is not immoral.
 
Upvote 0

MaxP

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,040
82
✟24,069.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
That is completely illogical and by the way the other species is the fox which is inferior to many other species in the way of intellect.
I can't discuss this until I see the experiment results and method.



Personal conjecture does not hold up to science.
So our intellect is not different in us than other animals?



You are deliberately ignoring many of the previous posts which relate it to social species, and you are quickly becoming a waste of time. But we also know that your attempts to use illogical philosophy do nothing to support your baseless assertions.

This thread has jumped 4 pages in 20 minutes. I'm trying to keep up, cut me some slack.
And how is positing our greater intellect changes our emotional response illogical philosophy?
 
Upvote 0

MaxP

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,040
82
✟24,069.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
Probably. Although I always thought of them as the ones that make us wince when someone gets hit with a ball in certain areas.
I shudder just thinking of it.



As I said, you still can think that God played a hand their exist.
That is, until you guys can disprove us.

I don't regard God as a placeholder for things we can't explain; I'd like to get the whole picture.
 
Upvote 0

MaxP

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,040
82
✟24,069.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
Interesting things to consider...
But I still think emotions are detrimental to survival. If everyone had no emotions, we wouldn't do many stupid things.
 
Upvote 0
F

Flibbertigibbet

Guest
I believe animals can show compassion...here is a video of a hippo saving an antelope from the jaws of a crocodile.
Yes, just before eating it's head. LOL This video cracked me up by the way - I was completely startled and really did lol when the hippo did that. My kids came over to watch and wanted to know why the hippo did that - I don't have a clue. If anyone knows, please pm me so I can tell them.

I know that animals do have feelings. One of my tabby cats, years ago, would come to comfort me or the kids if she thought we were upset. Also, if you p'd her off, she would p on you - or something that belonged to you. Marvelously smart cat, btw.

I have a tabby now that I swear understands English. And I'm not just talking about "do you want to eat?". She is also marvelously smart, but completely lacks compassion for everyone & everything except the toddler. On the bright side, at least she doesn't express her displeasure in the same odious manner.
 
Upvote 0
E

Everlasting33

Guest

It didn't eat it's head Well the commentator was saying that it looked like the hippo was giving it cpr or something. I don't know about that...but it really looked like the hippo was trying to save this antelope.
 
Upvote 0
N

Nathan45

Guest

It's all situational. As you pointed out, humans have compassion and emotions while some animals don't. So in some situations compassion is advantageous in other situations it isn't.

Obviously a lion attacking it's prey is not going to have compassion for it's prey. However, since we get all of our food from grocery stores people can still be compassionate to animals and get away with it.

But my point is you sortof have to have a certain ammount of compassion for other people if you want to get along in civil life. Empathy or understanding where the other person is comming from, is a rather useful trait for resolving differences. You talk about the "killer instinct" but how is having a "killer instinct" a useful trait if you're living in a city with thousands of other people.

Unless you're city has resorted to cannibalism there's better ways to get the necessities of life than having a killer instinct.

Life and death situations where compassion is dangerous are rare in civic life, and many people wouldn't have compassion in those situations anyway, as fear is generally a stronger emotion than compassion.

Furthermore, the brain pathways are already there.
Nearly everyone is compassionate towards their children, for obvious reasons.

It's not a very large evolutionary jump to go from compassion for one's own children to compassion for people (or beings) in general, as it would re-use a lot of the same wiring. So, since you're not just building it all from scratch, a lot of the more extreme examples of compassion may be a result of sexual selection.
 
Upvote 0

OphidiaPhile

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2008
2,919
188
57
Northern California
✟3,947.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I can't discuss this until I see the experiment results and method.
That two species kill for no reason other that pleasure does not need to have a model.




So our intellect is not different in us than other animals?
Different yes as in all species are different from each other, superior no.





This thread has jumped 4 pages in 20 minutes. I'm trying to keep up, cut me some slack.
And how is positing our greater intellect changes our emotional response illogical philosophy?
Positing a greater intellect is not logical and since emotion and intelligence are not linked that is also illogical. And yes philosophy is inherently illogical.
 
Upvote 0
B

Braunwyn

Guest
Interesting things to consider...
But I still think emotions are detrimental to survival. If everyone had no emotions, we wouldn't do many stupid things.
As I mentioned in another thread, we are social animals. We rely on our communities for survival. In this way, it makes sense that emotions play a role. eta: that's not to say that it's the best method/component, but it's what we have.
 
Upvote 0

MaxP

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,040
82
✟24,069.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
So did we only develop the trait after we starting living in giant cities?
Also, if the other creature had no emotions either, there would be no need for compassion. The other animal would simply not get offended, it has no emotions. Civil communication would simply be stark communication of fact, which would seem to be the most efficient method, and therefore the one that should have been naturally selected.

Unless you're city has resorted to cannibalism there's better ways to get the necessities of life than having a killer instinct.
Well, you can have a strong unit in the city without compassion, but when it comes to hunting down and killing rival cities, no compassion is needed, compassion is, in fact, detrimental. Also, you would need compassion to buy groceries. You just tell the man behind the counter what you want, he gives it to you, you leave. So while the killer instinct may not be necessary there, neither is compassion.

Life and death situations where compassion is dangerous are rare in civic life, and many people wouldn't have compassion in those situations anyway, as fear is generally a stronger emotion than compassion.
But why does civic life necessitate emotion? Why not cold, stark, communication of fact?

But compassion isn't necessary for the raising of one's children. The argument can be made parents that are too compassionate do not properly prepare their children for life. Thus, wouldn't the compassionate children die out sooner?
So, since you're not just building it all from scratch, a lot of the more extreme examples of compassion may be a result of sexual selection.
I don't get why compassion would be a factor in sexual selection. Why would a compassionate being go for another compassionate being?
 
Upvote 0

MaxP

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,040
82
✟24,069.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
As I mentioned in another thread, we are social animals. We rely on our communities for survival. In this way, it makes sense that emotions play a role. eta: that's not to say that it's the best method/component, but it's what we have.
But just without emotions, wouldn't our societies be more efficient?
No patriotism, we would simply be in the society that has the most benefit for us, and we would survive longer.
No anger, no pointless wars of ego.
No caring, just stark efficiency.

It goes on, but why aren't we all like computers, super-efficient, and unfeeling? Why would we evolve a thing that it would be best we didn't have? Why don't we just let the weak die? Emotions cause us to care for the weak, elderly. Then survival of the fittest, natural selection, would be contrary to emotion.
 
Upvote 0

MaxP

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,040
82
✟24,069.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
That two species kill for no reason other that pleasure does not need to have a model.
I'd like to see the experiment.


Different yes as in all species are different from each other, superior no.
Then why aren't apes building cities and civilizations and making us extinct?


Positing a greater intellect is not logical and since emotion and intelligence are not linked that is also illogical. And yes philosophy is inherently illogical.
Our intellect effect the lens through which we experience EVERYTHING.

Also I might add, the founding father of organized logic, Aristotle, was a philosopher, and into metaphysics at that.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

TheBear

NON-WOKED
Jan 2, 2002
20,653
1,812
✟312,481.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Empathy has been observed in a few species. A couple of years ago in Uganda, IIRC, an experiment was conducted with Rhesus monkeys. When the monkey pulled a lever, tasty treats were dispensed. This was repeated again and again, until the monkeys knew that pulling the lever resulted in food being dispensed. Then the researchers put another monkey in a separate, but viewable area, and attached electrodes. Now, every time the monkey pulled the lever, food was dispensed, but at the same time, the other monkey received a shock. The monkeys figured out what was happening when they pulled the lever, and went for extremely long periods without any food.

I'll see if I can find the exact research and post it here.

That is, until you guys can disprove us.
You guys and us? What is this, kindergarten? Instead of circling the wagons and closing ranks with others, I'd prefer to focus on the topic. Ideas will either stand or fall on their own merits, not by who's on what team. Let's leave the groupthink at the door.
 
Upvote 0

OphidiaPhile

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2008
2,919
188
57
Northern California
✟3,947.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
That is a ridiculous hypothesis since we would not live in cities nor would we be social animals if it were not for compassion.
 
Upvote 0

MaxP

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,040
82
✟24,069.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
That is a ridiculous hypothesis since we would not live in cities nor would we be social animals if it were not for compassion.
Why not?
We would form groups out of necessity and reason, no?
We would realize, at some level, that we can survive better in groups.
Why does being social imply being compassionate?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.