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Not sure your meaning or if you can speak plainly?
It wasn't plain when you said:I will speak plainly though...
Correct.At our church only the clergy or someone approved by the priest is allowed to be a Eucharisted Minister. This means that the only people as EM are the bishops, priests, deacons, alter servers, or ushers.
As an usher our priest has allowed me to be a Eucharistic Minister. And there was a time that I was ask to help as a EM.
Oh, I am sorry. You can be healed of that. Go to the root of that fear.But I was gripped with panic. Very embarassing too.
The reason your not comfortable is not because of your reverence.My reverance for Jesus in the Eucharist is great. I have no doubt that Jesus is present fully in the Eucharist. But, I am overwhelmed...
In receiving the Eucharist we have several options .
We can receive the Body of Christ on the tongue or in the hand .
We need not receive from the chalice if we choose not to .
We do not have the option to let ourselves be distracted when receiving the Eucharist . We should be as focussed as possible on what we are doing . This precludes irreverent behaviour whereby we are so focussed on what others are doing that we neglect to be in the right prayerful attitude .
The Apostles were Bishops...so their hands were to be ordained and therefore they dont quite fit in as a lay person.An interesting thought, perhaps. Did Jesus, in his own, historical person, feed the bread of his body to the Apostles at the Last Supper from his hand to their mouth, to forfend against the possibility of their treating it irreverently?
Jesus, came in all humility, not to domineer over us, but to save us. Of course, the legalism in the Church's teaching is there for a very good purpose, but we should surely not lose sight of the fact that Jesus did not want legalism to come between himself and his children?
In his lament over Jerusalem, Jesus used the image, not of Christ the King, necessary as it is for us to understand the truth of it, as well, but of a mother hen gathering her brood under wings.
It seems to me that nowhere is this spirit more germane than when we receive Holy Communion; which is a strange thing for me to say, since I view the Mass rather as as being on parade in the army, more than anything.
I do think that there is enough about the tone of the Mass to ensure that anyone with a spark of reverence will observe it during the service, and that receiving Holy Communion on the tongue would not be make good its absence in the Communicant.
There is always an absolute requirement for a reverential formality in any liturgical rite, but for the reason I stated earlier, receiving the sacred Host on the tongue seems to me to be a gratuitously legalistic distortion of that formality, which does not sit well with the intentions towards us of the divine Person we worship and, consequently, the nature of the rite.
Then ascend to them and stop putting yourself outside of those documents. I think I did read and answer your OP. But I'm not even going to go check to be sure because your attitude is obstinately contrary to that of the Church on this as all the documentation proves. When you open your mind then we can talk. Not until.
Antisock said:The indult is not a reversion, its an addition and never does he make a blanket generalization or specifically mention recieving on the hand. You do and apply his words to later actions of Popes that you refuse to ascend to.
Antisock said:Why do you debate against what the Church has done? Are you on the verge of denying the Pope? Do you think you can contradict the development of the Church with the Church?
Do you know me? Do you think I wish to lead you astray?My open mind tells me that you want to be equal to priests without being one.
Doesn't work that way bro and this indult that the Holy See fully approved was not what Pope Pius XII was talking about at all. It was for his time.What I quoted from Pope Pius XII applies to the later actions of popes. Pope Pius XII wrote against antiquarianism and later popes made antiquarian decisions anyway
Yet aren't you picking and choosing what to accept from the Magisterium of the Church. You accept only one form of recieving communion when the Church approves of more than that.When will you realize that the decision to revert back to Communion in the hand was made at great reluctance? When will you realize that you can't cherry pick the writings of the popes to fit your arguments and then tell others that anything they bring up is invalid because it disproves your argument?
Again, do you know me? This is the whole point brother. You cannot know the hearts or minds of anyone but yourself. And we need to learn of ourselves and leave others to Christ.Why is it when there is some issue in doubt and the papacy encourages the faithful to take a recommended course (in this case receive on the tongue while kneeling), you obstinately refuse to acknowledge this preference, knowing full well to err on the side of caution when it comes to sin?
But we as individuals cannot often choose so the point here is that it is not strictly speaking up to us. It is up to the Church.The concept of autonomy makes bringing the Eastern Churches into this irrelevant. What you fail to realize is that the Church also protects the Eastern Churches right to preserve its culture as well as the West.
The Eastern Churches can and do receive in the hand if they so choose as well and always have just as the Western Church did for over 1000 years.
it presumes nothing it states that the church can be wrong in her application with regard to disciplinaries matters and practices which is a notion that the church Herself maintains.[/QUOTE]Thats an irrelevant point as well. That fallacy presumes that the Church is wrong in its judgment
Nope that's something you inferred I don't talk about other peoples interior dispositionas as if I know what it is.or that one can predict what is in the hearts of people because of how they choose to receive as if one way is better than the other.
You are judging that in my heart I only care for peoples appearance that judgement as you have aptly stated is not yours to make.You have no way to know that. Absolutely none. And even if it were true, it is better to express that love from the heart, that the Lord alone can judge, and as the Church approves of than by some man who cares only for appearances and is hardened of heart toward the needs of others.
no. But my poiint was that stating that the church allows it doesn't mean that she might always allow or always think it is the best practiceWould you stigmatize all those who receive standing and in the hand as somehow loving the Lord less?
You do seem to like questions that if answered the wrong way give you permission to make judgements about whats in my haert. Yet I haven't done any such thing to you or anyone else. and yet you seem to condemn such a practice.That would come off as rather bigoted and full of ones self wouldn't it?
Why would we do anything for the sake of error Don't you mean the sake of sarcasm?For the sake of that fallacy,
I don't think we need to assume that I'm pretty sure the church teaches that. (although I suppose some don't love him at all an some don't know him so they can't be expected to)lets assume everyone loves the Lord in varying degrees.
I'm not sure how you arrive at this strange train of logicWhat should the Church do for those folks who struggle with a weaker faith than some? Force them on their faces?
I would encorage them to do the things the church recommends and that her saint recommend. I would think that would be an obvious answer.As if doing that would make them love the Lord more. How would you personally encourage folks to love the Lord more, by forcing them to kneel and receive on the tongue?
you justlike asking question that make you seem absurdWould you tell those who prefer the ancient practice of receiving in the hand they aren't as Christian as they could be because they don't want to perform the same praxis as you
I don't no anything about sanctioned, she has certainly allowed many thingswhen the CHURCH has officially sanctioned what they are doing?
If only I had said such a thing you comment might be of some help to some one.This is in effect what one is doing when they push a false notion contrary to the Church like receiving on the hand or standing is not good enough.
It's not an either or situation. As I have pointed out the church allows both she does not recommend both.Should these who follow the Church be receiving communion as you seem to approve of or how the Church approves of?
again interesting inference given all that I haven't said.Obviously the answer is the Church. Would you presume to tell the Church what she should allow or not? It seems you would.
We all love to varying degrees and merit to varying degrees And the Church tells us there are varying places in heaven. St theresa of the little flower tells us that there are many kind of flowers in the garden. They are not all roses but they are all in the garden. I hope that answers your question, though perhaps it was meant more as an accusation.What would Jesus do for these folks who others don't think love him as much
matthew 10:34"do you think I have come to bring peace? I have not come to bring peacve but a sword" it is an interesting thing for the prince of peace to say but then again he had a lot of devisive opinions.as they do because they don't express that love the same way as they do? It seems those hardened of heart may actually be the lessor Christian because they fail to recognize that Christs will is for us all to be sensitive to the plight of our neighbor. It seems those of divisive opinions could not care less
I'm sure who ever is doing this is in trouble.about the plight of ones neighbor because they would shun them for not doing things as they would have them.
Can one claim to be a better Christian when they neglect the plight of those around them in lieu of appearing more holy when inside they are actually hard of heart? Isn't that the same mistake the Pharisees made? it is.
this wasn't addressed to me but for my part. Yes, except under extraordinary circumstances refusal is definitely an option allowed by the church.If a priest asked you to help him distribute communion would you refuse?
this wasn't addressed to me but for my part. Yes, except under extraordinary circumstances refusal is definitely an option allowed by the church.
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