Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Usage?

rstrats · Nov 9, 2020

In accordance with with a CF member's suggestion, I'm starting a new topic with the correct title and description.

The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth".

There are some who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

And of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body).

However, a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

To account for the lack of a 3rd night, there may be some of those mentioned above who try to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language.

I'm simply curious if anyone who may fall in the above group of believers might provide examples to support the belief of commonality; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred.

seeking.IAM · Nov 9, 2020

This may turn out to be an interesting thread with different points of view, but I've got nothing to offer. I believe our Lord was crucified. I believe He rose again, ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father. I believe He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and His Kingdom will have no end. All else are inconsequential details that I don't spend time thinking about.

prodromos · Nov 9, 2020

Since you've posted this in the Traditional Theology forum, I assume you are aware that the traditional understanding of the Church as is expressed in the liturgy, in the hymns and in the arrangement of the liturgical calendar of feast days, is that Christ was crucified and died on Friday, was in the tomb for the whole of the Sabbath (the day on which God rested), and rose from the dead early on Sunday, the eighth day, the new day which the Lord has made, an eternal day which is not followed by night.
Three days and three nights being an example of synecdoche where the whole (day and night) signifies the part (Friday evening, Sunday morning) should be clear from the different way Christ referred to the same period of time, "after three days", "on the third day", "in three days and three nights". This is confirmed by the testimony of the disciples who were met by Christ on the road to Emmaus on the first day of the week.
If they do not mean the same thing then Christ is contradicting Himself. I don't know any Christian who accepts that as a possibility.

Albion · Nov 9, 2020

rstrats said:
The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth".

There are some who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

The great majority of Christians, in fact.

And of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body).

However, a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

This has been discussed many times here. The Hebrews did not count days in the same way we now do. There's nothing more to it than that.

rstrats · Nov 10, 2020

seeking.IAM,
re: "This may turn out to be an interesting thread with different points of view..."

Actually, this topic is concerned with only one point of view, i.e., that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

rstrats · Nov 10, 2020

prodromos,
re: "Since you've posted this in the Traditional Theology forum, I assume you are aware that the traditional understanding of the Church as is expressed in the liturgy, in the hymns and in the arrangement of the liturgical calendar of feast days, is that Christ was crucified and died on Friday, was in the tomb for the whole of the Sabbath (the day on which God rested), and rose from the dead early on Sunday..."

I am. That's why I thought this might be a good section to reach the most 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week ressurection advocates.

re: "Three days and three nights being an example of synecdoche where the whole (day and night) signifies the part (Friday evening, Sunday morning) should be clear from the different way Christ referred to the same period of time, 'after three days', 'on the third day', 'in three days and three nights'. This is confirmed by the testimony of the disciples who were met by Christ on the road to Emmaus on the first day of the week."

If there was no question that a 6th day crucifixion/1st day resurrection was the case and if "the heart of the earth" was referring to the tomb then that would be one example of where a night was said to be involved with an event when no part of a night could have occurred. But one example doesn't show that it was common usage.

rstrats · Nov 10, 2020

Albion,
re: "This has been discussed many times here. "

But so far I haven't seen where anyone has provided examples to show that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with a event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

Albion · Nov 10, 2020

rstrats said:
Albion,
re: "This has been discussed many times here. "

But so far I haven't seen where anyone has provided examples to show that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with a event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

As I said, that's all been done before. You can trust that that's the answer.

I don't care to go through it again myself, but other people may wish to do that, and if so, more power to them. You may also wish to go straight to those older threads and review them without waiting.

rstrats · Nov 10, 2020

Albion,
re: "As I said, that's all been done before."

So you're saying that there have been posts which have provided examples which have shown that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have been involved?

Albion · Nov 10, 2020

Common is a word that could be used, yes. The Hebrews counted days differently from us. We could go into detail, but I've gone straight to the answer for you.

As I said before, others may want to rehash it all once more and give a mountain of specifics, but the result will be the same. I have assumed, you see, that it is the answer you want more than examples that lead up to the answer.

prodromos · Nov 10, 2020

rstrats said:
BTW, the road to Emmaus account indicates that the crucifixion couldn't have occurred any later than the 5th day of the week.

No it doesn't.

rstrats · Nov 11, 2020

Albion,
re: "I have assumed, you see, that it is the answer you want more than examples that lead up to the answer."

That is incorrect. You can't have one without the other. Examples are essential to prove that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part part of a night time could occur.

rstrats · Nov 11, 2020

prodromos,
re: "No it doesn't.

If the first day of the week was the 3rd day since the crucifixion took place what would the first day since the crucifixion took place have been?

prodromos · Nov 11, 2020

rstrats said:
prodromos,
re: "No it doesn't.

If the first day of the week was the 3rd day since the crucifixion took place what would the first day since the crucifixion took place have been?

By Jewish reckoning, the day of the crucifixion. Jews counted inclusively. It is not an expression you are ever likely to see due to it being the self same day you are referencing.

rstrats · Nov 12, 2020

prodromos,
re: "By Jewish reckoning, the day of the crucifixion. Jews counted inclusively."

What examples do you have which show that the day since something took place is the day that the something took place?

prodromos · Nov 12, 2020

rstrats said:
prodromos,
re: "By Jewish reckoning, the day of the crucifixion. Jews counted inclusively."

What examples do you have which show that the day since something took place is the day that the something took place?

Since you apparently didn't read all of my last post.

prodromos said:
It is not an expression you are ever likely to see due to it being the self same day you are referencing.

rstrats · Nov 14, 2020

prodromos,
re: "It is not an expression you are ever likely to see due to it being the self same day you are referencing.:

How do you know it would be saying that it is the same day?

rstrats · Nov 17, 2020

Someone new looking in may know of examples.

SeraphimSarov · Nov 25, 2020

You're in the Traditional subforum. All of us here accept the authority of the early Church, which says Christ was crucified on Friday and was raised on Sunday (which, as was mentioned, is the eighth day). You are not going to get a different answer here, because it's the orthodox one, and it always has been from the very beginning. You might begin your search with researching what the early Church believed instead of trying to apply modern standards to things of God that are anything but modern.

rstrats · Nov 26, 2020

SeraphimSarov,
re: "You're in the Traditional subforum. All of us here accept the authority of the early Church, which says Christ was crucified on Friday and was raised on Sunday..."

Prodromos told me the same thing in post #3, and I replied in post #6: "That's why I thought this might be a good section to reach the most 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection advocates".

re: "You are not going to get a different answer here..."

That's great, because a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection are the only days with which this topic is concerned.

re: "You might begin your search with researching what the early Church believed instead of trying to apply modern standards to things of God that are anything but modern."

What modern standards do you think I'm trying to apply?

Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Usage?

Senior Member

A View From The Pew

Senior Veteran

Facilitator

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Facilitator

Senior Member

Facilitator

Senior Veteran

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Veteran

Senior Member

Senior Veteran

Senior Member

Senior Member

Пресвятая Богородица, спаси нас...

Senior Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency