- Jan 12, 2014
- 7,222
- 5,564
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Extremely well stated.I agree. How could the will of God portrayed at one point as Laws be done away with? His will has been the same from beginning to end. It's in the Lord's Prayer. Who other than the Adversary would it benefit anyone doing away with the will of God, or calling it new even though it is the same as the old? Is that not why it is portrayed as a falling away in the latter days, lawlessness? That, being man's will over the will of God, brought to a new extreme if that were even possible compared to what we have already seen throughout history.
Words evolve over time and the word "gentile" is one of my favorite examples of how word evolution has actually hindered our understanding and created a false bias. Please, allow me to explain...
In the 1828 Webster's, which standardized the English language by giving set definitions for words especially as understood in Scripture at that time, the word gentile meant... "A pagan, a heathen, anyone who is not Jewish or Christian."
According to the modern Webster's, gentile is defined as, "a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith - especially : a Christian as distinguished from a Jew."
Look again... when the first English bibles were translated, the Hebrew goyim and the Greek ethnos were translated as gentile which meant a pagan, or anyone who wasn't a Jew or Christian. But TODAY that word means, "anyone who isn't a Jew."
So is there a pagan religion that serves the God of Israel? No... because we cease being pagans when we come in faith to His family.
Yeshua was Jewish... and he kept the Sabbath, the Feasts, ate cleanly and so forth. He was the model we are to follow. Instead of following Him and doing as He did, the things He did are the fodder for jokes and bad theology. I find that sad, but as I said many times... do whatever it is you are convicted of. But for me, following the Lord means following the Lord... doing as He did as best I can. And when I fail He stands as advocate AND I learn from my mistakes.
Blessings.
Ken
I understand what you are saying but clearly there are more than Just the Old and New Covenants. The Old and the New do not speak of separate covenants the new is the more advanced version of the covenant given to Abraham which was the more advanced revelation of the covenant given in the Garden? Only the Mosaic Covenant is dependent upon God and man for its fulfillment. the way believers are to live and the power needed to live a Holy Life is found in Titus 2: 11- 15. If it were not all Paul would need say is the Mosaic Covenant do that. Romans 7 we must be dead to our Husband the Law. Why? Because the Law prevents us from living for God and even more than that We cannot be the Bride of Christ. If you are still wed to the Law then you are asking the Lord to commit adultery by wedding you and your husband the Law. I believe the Lord has said He is against Adultery how could the Lord then be an adulterer Himself. Our God is a jealous God and if you are trying to have both husbands the Law and the Christ you have got His jealousy working over time to free yourself from the Law through the death of Christ.
Scripture tells us God designed His Law, written, to put us to death to the Law through the Law. Listen to that we were put to death to the Law by the Law. If this is God's design what does it say if we seek to overcome or undermine our death to the Law? Is that His Will? If it were He never would have designed the Law to accomplish the things in believers relationship to the Law just as those things that are only for the believer not the nonbeliever. Are you the Righteous or the unrighteous? Of course we are the righteous but what the Law says it speaks only to the unrighteous. There can be is no condemnation for Believers who are in Christ Jesus and for their to be no condemnation their can be no Law. Wherever Law is their is condemnation, must be condemnation and wrath, and wrath or the Law is not being used correctly. If we misuse the Law it is sin all men can do is use the Law wrongly. This truth does not stop because we become believers.
Thanks Lord for providing others to test our belief on knowing that Your Holy Spirit wants nothing more for all us to see the Light of the World your Holy and righteous Son, our Lord, Savior and Husband. Amen
just my understanding I think the New Covenant began in the Garden. great to be able to seek these things. Truly take on His yoke and learn of him. One of the things I found out that really touches my heart is when we are told about putting our crown at His feet. The rabbi's believed that their students seated before them were there crown a crown made up of living stones? I wonder if maybe Rabbi Shaul /Paul was thinking of when the Holy Spirit was using him you write so much New Testament's books? Wonder who you have added to your crown. God bless and good night
For why else do you think your Bible is divided into two sections (i.e. One called the Old Testament, and the other called the New Testament)?
Only the Mosaic Covenant has "do this and live" attached to it. All the others covenants have what we believe, 'Believe," The difference between Mosaic is "Do" on our part or "Done" on His part. Do and it is up to us to finish our salvation or done and it has been finished by the Lord. The difference between the Mosaic and other religions is slight because all religions are do and do, do and do. There is only one Christian religion and it is not only done by Christ It is Finished. All we can do is believe.
The problem is the Word “New” It is not speaking of something that is new in the sense of not having been before, He is speaking of what has been being revealed in it latest form of being revealed. Just a question, “Are the covenants now fulfilled.?” All the covenants and your sub-covenants ? Where, when and how were they all fulfilled?” Thanks
No. I have done a deep study on the commandments that are found in the New Testament portion of our Bibles and this is not the case. Out of the 450 approximate direct commands in the New Testament (I have discovered so far), there are "do not's" and "do's."
Here is just a sampling that is taken after the cross:
The "Do Not's":
Do not say in your heart, “Who will ascend into Heaven?” Meaning: To bring Christ down, or, “Who will descend into the abyss?” Meaning: To bring Christ up from the dead [as if to say the Messiah has not come] (Romans 10:6-7) (Possible Repeat Command).* (Note: This could fall under the “he that does not believe”).
Do not boast against [do not consider yourself to be superior] to the [other] branches [Israel] (Romans 11:18).
Receive him that is weak in the faith, and do not argue with him over matters of conscience involving our liberty in Christ (Romans 14:1). (Romans 15:7 says, “Receive one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.”).
Do not let [Do not allow] the one who eats despise the one who does not eat, and do not let [Do not allow] the one who does not eat judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him (Romans 14:3). In case you missed it which covenant is fulfilled and how were they fulfilled. Are any covenants, old, New or sub covenant not yet fulf
Do not condemn one another any longer [on matters of conscience], but rather do not do use your liberty in Christ to make your brother to stumble.
Do not be idolaters (1 Corinthians 10:7). (Similar Command: “Flee from idolatry.” - 1 Corinthians 10:14).
Do not complain (murmur) (1 Corinthians 10:10).
Do not allow for fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness to be named once among you as is fitting and proper among the saints;* Neither allow for filthiness, or foolish talking, or jesting, which are not convenient; But rather: Give thanks. For you know that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man who is an idolater has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words; For these things bring the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Therefore, be not partakers with them (Ephesians 5:3-7).
The "Do's":
Do that which is good (Romans 13:3).
Whether you eat, or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31).
You should do that which is honest (2 Corinthians 13:7).
Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him (Colossians 3:17).
Whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men, knowing that of the Lord you shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for you serve the Lord Christ (Colossians 3:23-24).
Watch in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of your ministry (2.Timothy.4:5).
Whatever you faithfully do for the brethren, also do the same unto strangers (3 John 1:5).
Again, that is not the only witness I have given you in Scripture. I gave three witnesses in Scripture that all say the same thing. The New Testament began with Christ's death.
Extremely well stated.
The covenants are not a series of covenants each dovetailing in the previous or following covenant. The Covenant we know as the Mosaic Covenant is not and cannot be combined with the Covenant given to Abraham. Who says they cannot be combined? God! The covenant given to Abraham was duly established with the shedding of blood was and is like all the covenants except the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by the Lord's work alone not a combination of our work and His work. Abraham went into what looked like death and the Lord alone went between the sacrifices to meet the demands of the covenant. Only the Mosaic Covenant has "do this and live" attached to it. All the others covenants have what we believe, 'Believe," The difference between Mosaic is "Do" on our part or "Done" on His part. Do and it is up to us to finish our salvation or done and it has been finished by the Lord. The difference between the Mosaic and other religions is slight because all religions are do and do, do and do. There is only one Christian religion and it is not only done by Christ It is Finished. All we can do is believe.
We have to obey God's commands as a part of salvation within the New Testament, as well.
Here is just a sampling (after the cross).
#1. Be not high minded, but fear; For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed unless he also spare not you. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God, on them which fell, severity; but toward you goodness, if you continue in his goodness, otherwise you shall also be cut off (Romans 11:20-22).
#2. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:14).
#3. Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
#4. We urge you that you receive not the grace of God in vain (2 Corinthians 6:1).
#5. Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5).
#6. Do not allow for fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness to be named once among you as is fitting and proper among the saints;* Neither allow for filthiness, or foolish talking, or jesting, which are not convenient; But rather: Give thanks. For you know that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man who is an idolater has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words; For these things bring the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Therefore, be not partakers with them (Ephesians 5:3-7).
#7. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
#8. Take heed, brethren, that there not be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called Today; so as to prevent anyone in being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:12-13).
#9. Beware that you be not led away with the error of the wicked, and fall from your own steadfastness (2 Peter 3:17).
#10. Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life (Jude.1:21).
Believe it or not I actually have read what you have requested me to read. I would like to read your explanation of what or who fulfilled the covenants? Or what covenants remain to be fulfilled for believing Christians? Thanks
I gave three witnesses in Scripture. If we want me to slowly go over these three portions of Scripture with you so as to help you to see what they plainly say, I will do that. But I am not running down any strange rabbit holes that you are presenting here by answering your questions that are not based on the reality of what the Bible actually says. For I can ask questions that are loaded that are simply not true, too. For example: Do you like the green cats that breath fire, or do you like the purple cats that shoot lasers out of their eyes? See. I asked a question but the question does not really exist within the realm of reality. In other words, you have to lay it out for me with Scripture if you think you are correct.
Sorry you are not believing this is serious. I may disagree with you, and I do, but I don’t believe you are not serious and deserving of answers. You have sadly chosen that approach to me. I will try one more time from your point of view. As serious as this is on either side I would think you would as Paul said, ‘be in labor until Christ is formed in’ us. Here goes the big question again from your viewpoint. When were the old and New c
Covenants fulfilled, by who and how fulfilled. I would think it is a simple question after all the studying you have done. If my belief is in error please keep by showing which covenant was fulfilled.
I understand you believe bunches of stuff we’re just broken off. But all the rest of your “Old Covenant” was fulfilled. Now all we have to do is please explain to me the fulfillment of the leftover parts of the Law, again I understand your idea that there were ceremonial etc portions that just stop. I understand you believe the new Covenant was fulfilled by Christ’s death. Are there any other covenants, parts of covenants unfulfilled by Christ’s death? What are they and how will they be fulfilled. I want in on this if I am perishing under what you say is correct. Thanks
@Vicky gould
Right now I do not see your beliefs (that you expressed in this thread so far) as being even remotely biblical. It's way out there in left field for me. So asking me questions based on your view of Scripture that is foreign to me is not helpful. Please convince me of your positions in Scripture without asking the questions please. If it is asking a question about what a verse actually says (that is different). In fact, I asked you a question about a particular verse already (in what it says), but you did not give me an answer on it.
I made my statements according to the portion of the law that Jesus fulfilled.No... your claim is the law was done away with by the work of Christ.
The argument in your case is whether or not keeping the Sabbath is required. So keep the topic to that. These other issues can easily derail the discussion.Since "do not steal" or "do not lay with a man as you would a woman" are OT law... then are they now permissible?
We are warned about lawlessness in the latter times. That isn't US secular law, that is God's law we are being warned about. A law He gave and called everlasting. That means without end. If our theology doesn't stand in harmony with the law being without end, then the problem is with us.{/quote]The OP focused on the issue of what day to worship on. I prefer to stay on that.
What unanswerable questions? I haven't come across any yet that can't be answered in the Bible.Like I said... there isn't a need to continue. I once made the same exact arguments you are making. But, at some point you will have to deal with the unanswerable questions.
Since you are stuck in the law and I prefer the apostle Paul who saw the problems with the law and saw the liberty in grace.. I most likely won't be looking to you to answer any questions that I may have.When you do, look me up.
Luke 11:28 Jesus replied, “But even more blessed are all who hear the word of God and put it into practice.”Be blessed.
Ken
I made my statements according to the portion of the law that Jesus fulfilled.
I somewhere stated in my post that the apostle Paul stated that the law is replaced by grace.
There is a difference in what I said and what you thought that I said.
The argument in your case is whether or not keeping the Sabbath is required. So keep the topic to that. These other issues can easily derail the discussion.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?