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Commandments for Gentiles?

yedida

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Well, I sure didn't know this!! Very happy to hear that it's at least available. And Cambridge to boot!!!! Woo hoo, that's something big!! Alright, then, cool.
 
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yedida

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To start, the Hosea quote is out of context for your post - the stopping of the appointed times was only for a time, that is not a "forever" statement.
And it serves to note that the promise was made to the houses of Israel and Judah, not to the houses of the goyim.
 
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yedida

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Jesus made it very simple for us when he ascended - He said I leave you with two commandments - Have no other Gods before me and love your neighbor as yourself. If these two commandments are followed, it covers all the rest.

To a degree, but not fully. He never intended that all stopped as we lean back in our own comfort and just willed "love" to all. Doesn't really work that way. There are many things that are a matter of simple obedience, just between yourself and Hashem, these take on a matter of the will, of action on our part because they are commanded.
 
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Qnts2

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Jesus made it very simple for us when he ascended - He said I leave you with two commandments - Have no other Gods before me and love your neighbor as yourself. If these two commandments are followed, it covers all the rest.


Just wanted to give the quote from scripture.

Mark 12:28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

The first or great commandment is a quote from the Tenakh and is actually quoting the Shema.
 
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visionary

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Jesus made it very simple for us when he ascended - He said I leave you with two commandments - Have no other Gods before me and love your neighbor as yourself. If these two commandments are followed, it covers all the rest.
It is truly the best summarization of the commandments of God.. but it doesn't change the details of what it means to love God and love your neighbour, in the how, who, what, where, why, and when.
 
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SharonL

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I think the description lays within the quotes. If you have no other Gods your desire to worship the one true God will overwhelm any other possibility.

If you love your neighbor as yourself - there would be no needs that would not be met, you would be there to help anyone you come in contact who has any kind of need. So when God says these two commandments are the greatest, they cover all of them.
 
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yedida

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But they don't. If they do, why did so-called Christians change the Sabbath observance? Why do Christians disobey the dietary laws? Why did/does Christianity teach that God's Torah instructions have been abolished? Love God with all your heart? somthing's wrong with that picture
 
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Avodat

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Jesus made it very simple for us when he ascended - He said I leave you with two commandments - Have no other Gods before me and love your neighbor as yourself. If these two commandments are followed, it covers all the rest.


He also said, if you love me you will obey me (paraphrased). There's no easy cop-out.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Jesus made it very simple for us when he ascended - He said I leave you with two commandments - Have no other Gods before me and love your neighbor as yourself. If these two commandments are followed, it covers all the rest.
The Good Samaritan parable (Luke 10:25-39) - one of the most powerful parables ever - simplifies things even further. And it's not something Yeshua alone noted, seeing that it is a parable that Rabbi Heliel already noted previously since he had the same mindset as Christ did when it came to acceptance of Gentiles within Judaism as he/others saw it (more discussed here and here at Hillel and The Good Samaritan | Think Hebrew or Yeshua and Hillel - Nazarene Space). Christ was asked about what the greatest commandments were in the Mosaic Law---and after stating what they were, he was challenged by another on it....at which point Christ pointed to a Samaritan (considered to be idolatrous, half-breed/mixed people related to the Jews) as the one living out what the Lord wanted more than all of the others one would have expected to be examples, as was the case with the Levite and the priest. People often miss the significance of the Samaritan culture in what it symbolizes, as they practiced their own version of Judaism, and lived side by side with the Jews of Israel. Despite the striking similarities in religion, appearance, and language between the two people, they were treated by the xenophobic occupants of that ancient land as foreigners. For Jews, to be called a Samaritan meant in more general terms: a despised foreigner. To be called such was a deep insult, with the Jewish people even calling Christ one when denouncing him ( John 8:47-49 )....and yet for Christ, it was a honor to identify with them as well as love them/spread the Gospel to them and see them as fellow believers (more discussed here in #31 , #35 ,#52, #53 , #77, #78 , #85, & #95 ).

The one who challenged Christ could not even say "The Samaritan" due to the angst/beef Jews had with Samaritans...and instead chose to say "The one who had mercy on him" as the one who was truly a neighbor as the Lord saw it. In many ways, Christ rose the standard....in line with what he often did....and yet, he also took concepts beyond the bounds of a paticular religion when showing the simplicity of what it means to follow Him and be considered one of His own. For a good take on what it means to have good understanding of Messianic Judaism AND how to interact with others who don't agree with it, one can go and look up the name of the Messianic Jewish rabbi known as Gabriel Simkin. Very interesting in what he had to say as it pertains to love for the Body as evidence of understanding what the Spirit of the Law was always about....

Regardless of how many within MJism have noted what is to be central with charity/righteousness and acts of Good WOrks - in line with what other Observant Jews did such as Tabitha in Acts 9:35-37 /Acts 9 who made clothing for others and helped the poor - it is rather amazing seeing that it's deemed as either too "easy" or "not enough" to serve/love others practically ..as if that was not the heart of Torah to begin with, according to what Christ said in Luke 10:25-39.

When it is at the point that doing what the Lord commanded--loving Widows and orphans and walking justly/humbly and love mercy ( Micah 6:7-9 Micah 6, James 2:12-14/ James 2 )--something is wrong. And I say that in light of how often I saw many within certain Hebrew Roots circles literally dismiss anyone as not loving God's law as much as them since they often talk on it/how much more observant they were compared to others.....even though they'd NEVER go out of the way to love/serve others practically and were only focused on the theological. For true observance will always be demonstrated by service to others more so than service to the mind with how much one may theologically understand.
James 2
brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”[b] also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
For many, it comes down to what Paul noted in Romans 13:
Romans 13:9

Love Fulfills the Law

8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Galatians 5:5-7


Paul quoted from Exodus 20:13-15,17 and Deut. 5:17-19/Deut. 5:21 as it concerns some of what the Mosaic Code said--though his central basis for love being the greatest came from Lev. 19:18...on love for the Lord/neighbor. The concept of the "Royal Law" is something that flowed from that understanding, as he also noted in Galatians 5:5-7/ Galatians 5 and where he stated "serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself" ( Galatians 5:12-14 ). This is based solely on what the Lord Jesus also indicated when he was asked on what the greatest question was---and he repeatedly noted the same on how it was Love for the Lord/Love for one's neighbor ( Matthew 22:33-35 /Matthew 22, Mark 12:27-29 / Mark 12:29 Mark 12 ). It seems that the Lord went out of his way to make clear that loving one's neighbor was something that everyone--Jew or Gentile---was required to do......and was always the standard.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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There are people around the world (and in every generation) - many of whom never heard a think about the Mosaic - and yet based on what the Lord said, they actually would have lived out the heart of the Lord more faithfully than someone who took pride in how kosher they were or took care to wear head coverings. This is what Paul noted in Romans 1-3 - plainly saying that Gentiles who did not know the Law would still be held account to what they did know because God wrote what he desired on the hearts of men ....and the Lord noted directly than in loving others, you fulfill EVERYTHING He desired. If that's too "little" for others, the reality is that they really do not know who the Lord is based on what He said of Himself.

It's a lot easier to focus on Dietary laws (even as one is selective in application) than it is to humble yourself/actually help neighbors in need or do benevolence ministry...or serve the poor. And not keeping this in mind is why there are so many who end up decieved on what it means to serve the Lord. For to them, it's not about what Yeshua said on being a Good Samaritan to others...nor is it about living a life of mercy/compassion to others. It's about taking pride in how many rules one can keep within Torah - and then looking down on others who may not fit their estimation....much as Yeshua warned against in Luke 18 with the Two Men who prayed and how the former priding himself on all of his accomplishments was not accepted like the latter one who saw His need for God's mercy.

Sadly, this is something that spills over even into the ways others treat one another - as you already know when it comes to so many claiming "Why are the Christians not universally keeping Kosher like I am?" or "Why are they worshipping on Sunday rather than Saturday?" (as if Yeshua or the early body of believers ever had the mindset that to serve the Lord on Sunday was against Torah/God's heart since Shavaout/Pentecost happened that day). They do so sadly in the attempt at being "correct"/in line with what they see as the early Church in the first Century Judaic culture - and yet they do not realize where they may decieved when concluding that anything done in the world of Christendom is automatically counter to that.....and they end up decieving themselves in thinking that they'd even come close to it. It's the battle behind what many Messianic Gentiles experience when it comes to the filters they have on believers within the body of Messiah ...as they cannot acknowledge that they'e Christians (even when they already are if claiming Christ - per I Peter 4 and other texts), they cannot see where they already practice the same things seen in Christianity like the early Jewish body did ..and they celebrate what they do as if it's Jewish when even other Jews have said things were so much more simpler than how they make it.

What Christ noted in the 2 Greatest COmmandments is something that all must remember if they're to truly serve Messiah the way He intended - and interact with/view the ways He desired it
 
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mishkan

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oopsy, I replied prior to seing yours and David's responses, lol. Oh well......

And yet, you saw exactly the same issues we did. Must be a case of GMTA.
 
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Yahu

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The feasts are not Jewish feasts. They are the appointed times of Yah. They are His feasts. Now are we required to travel to Jerusalem for those feasts? There is no temple building now. We are the temple of the Ruach HaKodesh. Yeshua is our high priest.

Now the way I see it we are to follow the Spirit of the law. Many of the laws are moral for righteous behavior. For example the law not to use unfair weights and measures applies to doing fairly in business. Or how about, don't take a girl's virginity then refuse to marry her. Those type of moral laws apply to everyone and are equated to righteous behavior.

Now are we to kill anyone involved in witchcraft? No, we are not the Nation of Israel. We have to abide by the laws of our land.

At least that is the way I see it. We use the law as a training tool to teach righteous behavior but be led by the Holy Spirit in our daily walk.
 
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Yahu

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One of the ways I understand the dietary laws is base on the use of those foods at the time. Pork and rabbit for example were specifically used in the feasting at the pagan places of worship. It was a restriction to partake in those events.

You don't feast on wild boar to morn the death of Tammuz. You don't feast on rabbit to celebrate fertility rights to Ashtoreth.
 
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mercy1061

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I think the scholar's knowledge or rather "practice" of the Torah is a good means of measuring a person's understanding of scripture not necessarily their academic ability. A man may be able to remember a set of facts, and be able to make an intelligent arguement from those facts but that does not mean that this man truly understood what occurred and why it occurred. The more you "practice" something the more familiar you become with the content. Most reputable colleges/universities assess your knowledge; they do not teach you how to practice. Let us hear Yeshua:

Matthew 23
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

It is one thing to learn a particular subject matter of interest; it is entirely another to put what you learn and are taught about Torah into practice.
 
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Avodat

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This is a scandalous generalisation and is totally unjustified.
 
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Avodat

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I made no "scandalous generalisation" some programs require an "internship" to complete a teaching program for example.

A large number who teach such programmes do just that, though you didn't include that fact. You simply highlighted the bit that says they do not do what they teach. That is scandalous.
 
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