Commanding the Cubbies

The author seems to think Paul is speaking of the 12 in 2 Corinthians 11, I believe that is a complete misreading. He is speaking of the many false apostles who were about and who preached a different story.

He never mentions either what is said about Paul and his writings in 2 Peter 3.

Marv

I have some sympathy for many points the writer makes concerning Paul but to call Paul a false prophet and a liar needs more support than what is offered here.

From the reading of this chapter I get the distinct impression the author is working from his own agenda rather than giving some objective analysis. It is a strange mix - history and prophesy. Either you deal in one or the other. To use some literature which is a completely different genre to demonstrate a historical probability is a rather long bow for anyone to draw. This author does not do anywhere a near enough of a job to get me more than mildly interested.

Personally, I think it could be more readily demonstrated that Paul go it wrong solely from the historical evidence.

garfieldthecatman said:

The following is from Chapter 7 of the book Jesus and Judaism vs. Paul and Christianity written by Scott Nelson (with permission ) It is not my intention to harm the foundation of the christian faith by saying that Paul is anything other than what he claimed to be. I'm only trying to discuss the possibility that, though he was a man of God, he was still human. This is not a discussion for the weak in faith, rather it's a way to challenge how strong and rooted our belief in Christ really is.

Paul the false apostle

Read reasonably.

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"Thus far, I have shown that Paul's concept of God's foreknowledge, and his doctrine of predestination not only do not exist in Yahshua's words or the Hebrew Scriptures, but there is much evidence to the contrary to be found in them. "

quote=Gallio;Paul, was the founder of “Christianity” as a new religious cult separate from Judaism

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Slow down... Jesus obviously had something to do with it as He incurred Jewish wrath and they rejected Him & His followers, so the legitimacy of the term "Christian" may be a legitimate quibble, but most of the "cultishness" profile of early Christianity had to do with it being an outlaw subculture, not fanatacism. "Seperate from Judaism" only as much as a child is seperate from its parent. I'm sensing some heavy shading...

and is obviously attempting here to defend his own idiosyncratic opinions against, those who were, in all probability, the emissaries of the original Jerusalem based Jewish followers of Jesus of Nazareth headed by, James, Jesus’ own brother.

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Paul was unique,... maybe an over-achiever to some degree. He was certainly driven by something to ride to Damascus. Some say it was homicidal pride.
At any rate, it's true we should criticaly examine his words to see if they harmonize & correlate with other scripture thematicaly, narratively, theologicaly, etc., or not.

Despite the power of Paul’s personal conversion experience, he was associated with a religious movement that was already established.

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Right; Judaism.

Ultimately, the existence of the contemporary followers of Jesus was dependent upon the actual historical figure of Jesus

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Ultimately how not?

and some fundamental beliefs and stories about his life and death. Paul could not wholly abandon dependence upon this foundation. However, he did not accept the evaluation and interpretation of Jesus as taught by the original disciples.

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I would be interested to know how

Paul never directly equates his figure of Jesus Christ with God, but on occasions comes very close to it in his extant writings. He was more a mystical visionary than a systematic theologian, being influenced by religious concepts from both his own Hellenised Judaic background and the all pervading, Graeco-Roman society in which he moved. Passages in his letters provide details of the idiosyncratic conceptions and definitions he initiated, regarding the person and identity of Jesus.

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I'll check 'em out soon, thanks. I just hit the wall. Time for downtime.