Collusion...is there any doubt now?

Allandavid · Nov 2, 2017

All the elements are now in place...are there any Trump followers who now still insist that there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and agents of the Russian government?

The guilty statement by Papadopoulos shows that Trump and his people knew of Russia’s hacking well before the American people did.
The same statement also reveals that an offer was made to share the material hacked.
That offer was accepted when Junior et al agreed to meet with the Russian lawyer to ‘get the dirt’ on Clinton.

That’s collusion 101....connivance, complicity, plotting, secrecy.....

Moral Orel · Nov 2, 2017

Deny till you die, bro!

Strathos · Nov 2, 2017

Yes, there is doubt. They could release a video of Trump and Putin patting each other on the back while laughing about how they influenced the election and people would still deny it. Tribalism is a powerful thing.

mark kennedy · Nov 2, 2017

Allandavid said:
All the elements are now in place...are there any Trump followers who now still insist that there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and agents of the Russian government?

The guilty statement by Papadopoulos shows that Trump and his people knew of Russia’s hacking well before the American people did.

The same statement also reveals that an offer was made to share the material hacked.

That offer was accepted when Junior et al agreed to meet with the Russian lawyer to ‘get the dirt’ on Clinton.

That’s collusion 101....connivance, complicity, plotting, secrecy.....

Hang on a sec, when and how exactly did Trump know about the hack? Because if true that's your smoking gun

High Fidelity · Nov 2, 2017

He's even throwing his son-in-law under the bus now.

The walls are well and truly closing in.

America, you got played by Russia. You're still being played by Russia. Wake up.

Allandavid · Nov 2, 2017

mark kennedy said:
Hang on a sec, when and how exactly did Trump know about the hack? Because if true that's your smoking gun

He was at the campaign meeting when Papadopoulos announced that he had a Russian contact who could arrange for them to be supplied with the hacked material. He (Papa) suggested an overseas trip for Trump to meet with those people. Sessions argued against it and that idea went no further, but it is clear that they knew about the hacked material long before the American public.

When Junior was later offered a meeting on US soil for similar purposes, he jumped at it (“I love it!”). The actions of he, Kushner and Manafort in attending that meeting provide the intent to collude.

bhsmte · Nov 2, 2017

Allandavid said:
All the elements are now in place...are there any Trump followers who now still insist that there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and agents of the Russian government?

The guilty statement by Papadopoulos shows that Trump and his people knew of Russia’s hacking well before the American people did.

The same statement also reveals that an offer was made to share the material hacked.

That offer was accepted when Junior et al agreed to meet with the Russian lawyer to ‘get the dirt’ on Clinton.

That’s collusion 101....connivance, complicity, plotting, secrecy.....

There is evidence there were contacts between trump campaign and russians. And since collusion is not a crime, you need to have evidence of a crime, such as conspiracy to do something that is actually illegal.

Each side here is overreacting to anything that comes out each day and there will be plenty more revealed in the coming months. IMO, there will be enough revealed to embarass both sides of this soap opera and will ultimately reveal, just how dirty politics is, from both parties.

Allandavid · Nov 2, 2017

bhsmte said:
There is evidence there were contacts between trump campaign and russians. And since collusion is not a crime, you need to have evidence of a crime, such as conspiracy to do something that is actually illegal.

Each side here is overreacting to anything that comes out each day and there will be plenty more revealed in the coming months. IMO, there will be enough revealed to embarass both sides of this soap opera and will ultimately reveal, just how dirty politics is, from both parties.

Didn’t mention anything about illegality. The biggest danger to Team Trump with these revelations are political in nature, at this stage.

Allandavid · Nov 2, 2017

One thing to add...it is obvious that Trump & Co were aware that criminal activity had taken place (the hacks), yet chose not to inform the authorities. I don’t know enough about your laws to claim that that constitutes a crime........or just an absence of patriotism...?

expos4ever · Nov 2, 2017

Strathos said:
Tribalism is a powerful thing.

Excellent point. We should really be talking a lot more about how commitment to tribal identity markers distort clear thought.

bhsmte · Nov 2, 2017

Allandavid said:
One thing to add...it is obvious that Trump & Co were aware that criminal activity had taken place (the hacks), yet chose not to inform the authorities. I don’t know enough about your laws to claim that that constitutes a crime........or just an absence of patriotism...?

As i stated, before this is over, there will likely be political damage inflicted on both sides. Give it time, lots more to come.

LoAmmi · Nov 2, 2017

bhsmte said:
There is evidence there were contacts between trump campaign and russians. And since collusion is not a crime, you need to have evidence of a crime, such as conspiracy to do something that is actually illegal.

Each side here is overreacting to anything that comes out each day and there will be plenty more revealed in the coming months. IMO, there will be enough revealed to embarass both sides of this soap opera and will ultimately reveal, just how dirty politics is, from both parties.

Of course it not being illegal will have massive ramifications. Why wouldn't the next Democratic candidate openly work with a foreign intelligence agency who dislikes Trump to get information?

An important court ruling may be if information is "something of value" thus accepting it from a foreign source is in violation of the law.

bhsmte · Nov 2, 2017

LoAmmi said:
Of course it not being illegal will have massive ramifications. Why wouldn't the next Democratic candidate openly work with a foreign intelligence agency who dislikes Trump to get information?

An important court ruling may be if information is "something of value" thus accepting it from a foreign source is in violation of the law.

Courts dont make law, they interpret existing law. Clinton's campaign paid a firm to gather info, which steele obtained at least partially from his russian sources. So, does anyone think the powers at be in the russian government, where not aware steele was looking for info on trump and may have influenced the same?

This thing really gets messy when you look at everything we know to date and there will be plenty more to come and again, i believe both sides will be outed to some degree.

LoAmmi · Nov 2, 2017

bhsmte said:
Courts dont make law, they interpret existing law. Clinton's campaign paid a firm to gather info, which steele obtained at least partially from his russian sources. So, does anyone think the powers at be in the russian government, where not aware steele was looking for info on trump and may have influenced the same?

This thing really gets messy when you look at everything we know to date and there will be plenty more to come and again, i believe both sides will be outed to some degree.

The existing law just says something of value, if I recall. The question is if information is something of value in my mind. That's not making law, that's interpreting the law.

The most valuable thing my company owns is the data that has been generated. More than any other asset. If someone stole that data from us, would that not be "something of value"?

bhsmte · Nov 2, 2017

LoAmmi said:
The existing law just says something of value, if I recall. The question is if information is something of value in my mind. That's not making law, that's interpreting the law.

The most valuable thing my company owns is the data that has been generated. More than any other asset. If someone stole that data from us, would that not be "something of value"?

And that is where the conspiracy laws come in. If russia illegally obtaine information or emails and the trump campaign conspired with them to steal the information and or release stolen information, then you can charge people with conspiracy related crimes.

Simply agreeing to meet with people, is not illegal and or come close to supporting conspiracy charges. But, we dont know what else will be revealed, that could support those charges, who they would include and how far up the chain, does the evidence show trump people directed the activity or had knowledge of the same.

mark kennedy · Nov 2, 2017

Allandavid said:
He was at the campaign meeting when Papadopoulos announced that he had a Russian contact who could arrange for them to be supplied with the hacked material. He (Papa) suggested an overseas trip for Trump to meet with those people. Sessions argued against it and that idea went no further, but it is clear that they knew about the hacked material long before the American public.

When Junior was later offered a meeting on US soil for similar purposes, he jumped at it (“I love it!”). The actions of he, Kushner and Manafort in attending that meeting provide the intent to collude.

I'm not trying to challenge you on this but do you have any sources for this? If he is aware of impending attacks that he will benefit from that is definitely impeachable. The Congress passed a veto proof bill over that, if this is solid he is toast

CitizenD · Nov 2, 2017

Allandavid said:
All the elements are now in place...

Incorrect. All the elements were in place months ago when Trump Jr. got caught gleefully taking a meeting with Russian nationals offering dirt on Clinton acquired by the Russian government.

Why Trump wasn't impeached that day, we'll never know.

Always in His Presence · Nov 2, 2017

CitizenD said:
Incorrect. All the elements were in place months ago when Trump Jr. got caught gleefully taking a meeting with Russian nationals offering dirt on Clinton acquired by the Russian government.

Why Trump wasn't impeached that day, we'll never know.

Gleefully? Was he doing a Mr Burns Excellent and strumming his fingers?

Regardless what do we have so far.

Someone who lied to the FBI. Now there is a bastion of truth to rely on. But regardless he had nothing admissible or criminal on the Trump team or Trump

Nothing burger

31 page indictment regarding events that happened two years before Trump was running for President. Nothing admissible or criminal on the Trump team or Trump

Nothing Burger with a side of lies

Where is the evidence?

Still patiently waiting.

CitizenD · Nov 2, 2017

hislegacy said:
Gleefully? Was he doing a Mr Burns Excellent and strumming his fingers?

Did you miss the 30 foot tall headlines when this broke?

Russian Dirt on Clinton? ‘I Love It,’ Donald Trump Jr. Said

If the future president’s eldest son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of a continuing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

CitizenD · Nov 2, 2017

hislegacy said:
31 page indictment regarding events that happened two years before Trump was running for President. Nothing admissible or criminal on the Trump team or Trump

You're referring to Manafort.

Two points:

1) Papadoupolos working on behalf of the campaign met with Russians on the promise of, again, the illegally collected emails on Clinton, just like Trump Jr!
2) You really think all the charges have been revealed?

Collusion...is there any doubt now?

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