Col 2 condemns commandments of men - not commandments of God

jerry kelso said:

I wasn't saying the seventh day wasn't a sabbath but the term is not used in Genesis and is not scripturally used or implied before or after the seventh day so your cool of the day is just mere conjecture and opinion.

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There are better and more direct ways to say, It is not true <<the term ... is not scripturally used or implied before or after the seventh day>>. You want me to spell it out to you? I better not. I am afraid for my own sake.

Nevertheless my macro physics is, where R stands for Repetition to the power of Repetition, Rquadrant equals Z where Z stands for Zero.

jerry kelso said:

3. 1 Chronicles 7:9-10; Ezra 3:6; Nehemiah 8:14-18 shows the Jews had solemn assembly of worship on the eighth day.

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<<the eighth day>>, OF WHAT?
Don't mind telling me; I don't want to embarrass you. I knew long ago already.

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

<<the eighth day>>, OF WHAT?
Don't mind telling me; I don't want to embarrass you. I knew long ago already.

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gerhardebersoehn,

1. If you have to ask that question you should be embarrassed. Jerry kelso

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

There are better and more direct ways to say, It is not true <<the term ... is not scripturally used or implied before or after the seventh day>>. You want me to spell it out to you? I better not. I am afraid for my own sake.

Nevertheless my macro physics is, where R stands for Repetition to the power of Repetition, Rquadrant equals Z where Z stands for Zero.

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gerhardebersoehn,

You have no rebuttal for the scripture I gave. The only that stands at Zero is with no scripture to stand on. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

The first and second visits of the Lord to his disciples were on the first day

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To female disciples, yes, and to two male disciples who weren't of the twelve. To none other.

jerry kelso said:

on the first day and so was Pentecost and the 3000 saved

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False arrogation.
Pentecost came fully 50 days round with "the fiftieth day", having been "the day after the seventh Sabbath's week" or "after the seventh Sabbath's seven days", ipso facto the Seventh Day Sabbath on occasion.
As for its "three days", Jesus' Last Passover day by day was the very literal re-occurrence of the exodus passover with its "seven Sabbath's weeks" and "the day after the seventh Sabbath's week being the Fiftieth Day" or "Shavuot", 'Pentecost'.

Passover Calendar - Month’s Feast of Sabbaths

jerry kelso said:

Gentiles were preached the gospel on the first day of the week. Acts 1:46: And they, continuing "Daily" with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart.

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You claim that "continuing "Daily"" means <<Gentiles were preached the gospel on the first day of the week>>. Then why cannot it be claimed Gentiles were preached the gospel on the Sabbath Day? Because if they were preached the Gospel on the Sabbath they would eat their meat with sadness and sanctimoniously from house to house would break bread?

Days of discipleship


Jesus declared his disciples, apostles, according to Luke 1:2, on “the day in which He was taken up, after that He through the Holy Spirit had given commandment to the apostles, whom He had chosen” for his followers, or, ‘disciples’ three and halve years ago. On “the fortieth day that He was seen” after his Resurrection, Jesus’ ‘called’, were made his messengers; his ‘followers’ or ‘students’, became Jesus’ ‘sent’—his commissioned ambassadors or ‘apostles’.


After his Resurrection, on the fortieth day that Jesus was “being seen of them” (his disciples) Acts 1:3b, “he had spoken these things … You will receive Power when the Holy Spirit comes and you will be witnesses unto Me”—that is, “you will be my apostles”. “And when He had spoken these things, He was taken up.” 1:9,8.


That Jesus had “been seen of them (his disciples) forty days”, meant,

First, That they had not seen Him on the day that He rose from the dead and grave, but for the first time on the day after;

Next, That they had all left Him on the morning that He was betrayed and was delivered over to the Jews to be crucified; and

Three, That they had not seen Him been buried on the following day after he had died.

So Jesus was not seen again by any until after, the day that He resurrected on, and “risen, appeared to Mary Magdalene first, on the First Day of the week”—the day on which He also was seen by the two disciples on their way to Emmaus.

And thirdly was Jesus seen by ten of his 12 disciples and others “where they with reference to that First Day of the week, were in the upper room thronged in together behind closed doors for fear of the Jews”. Luke 24:36 John 20:19 Mark 16:14 Matthew 28:17,18.


Acts 1:3 and the fact “He was seen of them forty days” before He ascended, therefore implies that neither Jesus’ mother nor his disciple John, had witnessed his death, but had left the scene of the cross before He died, “God having loosed the pains of death” with death. Acts 2:24b Psalm 102:20 Ecclesiastes 12:5-8 Romans 7:2.


First day Jesus was seen

#2 Now Jesus was first seen by Mary Magdalene “risen, on the First Day of the week.” Mark 16:9. In the sixth week after, on the Fifth Day of the week therefore, on the 26th day of the Second Month, it was the fortieth day that Jesus “had shown Himself alive after his suffering” (Acts 1:3a) and declared his disciples, “my witnesses”, because they were “witnesses of his Resurrection”, and were entitled to “take part of this ministry and apostleship.” Acts 1:22,25.


The “fortieth day Jesus was seen of them”, became known as ‘Ascension Thursday’.

So “6When therefore (on that “fortieth day”) they were come together, they (the disciples) asked Him, Lord, wilt Thou at this time (immediately) restore again the kingdom of Israel? And He said unto them, It is not for you, to know the times or the seasons which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power after the Holy Spirit is come upon you”—ten days on, on Pentecost, the “Fiftieth Day” which was also “fifty days counted from (and including) the day that ye wave the first sheaf before the LORD”— Jesus’ Resurrection Day “after, the sabbath” of the passover, the 15th of the First Month.


“6When therefore (on the “fortieth day He was seen of them”) they were come together, Jesus said to them, Ye shall be my witnesses—apostles—both in Jerusalem and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”


Why on the fortieth day that Jesus was seen by his disciples?


Because of the correlation between the separation of the passover lamb “on the tenth day of the First Month” (‘Palm Sunday’), ten days before “First Sheaf Wave Offering Before the LORD”, “on the sixteenth day of the First Month”, when Jesus rose from the dead and “finished to cleanse the sanctuary”, and Jesus’ Ascension ten days before Pentecost (or ‘Shavuot’ or “The Fiftieth Day”, “counted”), in preparation for the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the 5th day of the Second Month.


#3 Apostolic Witness In Jerusalem


Apostolic witness in Jerusalem entailed a dual responsibility,


a) “Ministering the Word” Acts 2:14…41, synonymous with and indistinguishable from proclaiming “the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship in breaking of bread (the Lord’s Supper) and in prayers”, verse 42;


b) “All that believed together had all things common and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all as everyone had need—and they continued daily with one accord in the temple and in eating (“breaking”) bread from house to house, eating their meat … with all the people.” 2:42-47.


Example of a), Acts 3.

Example of b), Acts 4.


But in all the apostles were the leaders taking all responsibility in everything and for everything. The apostles actually were, the Church—The Church of Jesus Christ, “in the Temple”, worshipping. “They taught the People”, the Church, and preached through Jesus the Resurrection from the dead … in the temple” 4:2. These “were the times of refreshing from the Presence of the LORD; And He shall send Jesus Christ which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. … Yea, and all the prophets … as many as have spoken, have foretold of THESE days.” 3:18-21,24.


“If we this day be examined of the good deed … be it known to you that … Jesus Christ … is the Stone which is become the Head Stone of the corner”, of the Temple— the apostles and the People of God. 4:9-11.


Christ’s apostles have taken over from the high priests and rulers of the temple, “in the temple”! And they proved it with “miracle of healing” and “signs and wonders done by the Name of thy holy Child, now, Lord.” 4:22,30.


“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul; neither said any that ought of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had all things common”—under Christ’s apostles. “And with great power gave the apostles witness of the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus; and great grace was upon them all.” 4:32,33.


“Then great awe came upon all the Church and on all hearers. … And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s porch; and to the apostles no man more durst join himself, but believers were added to the Lord—multitudes both men and women.” 5:11-14.


The number of apostles remained the same, while the number of believers increased disproportionately to both the apostles and the place of their worship, the temple: “insomuch that they brought the sick out into the streets…”, 15,16.


So much was the increase that “Then, the high priest rose up and all they that were with him… and they were filled with indignation. So they incarcerated the apostles …” 5:17,18 further.


The seriousness of their situation could only be held in check through the miracles which God gave the apostles to perform. Their apostleship relied and depended on the Power of the Holy Spirit completely, and with it the welfare of the entire Church as well as proclamation of the Word of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It clearly was not God’s will that things should go on for ever in the same way. God took no pleasure in the hardships of his elect the apostles and believers of The Name, “for there is not in any other than Jesus, salvation, nor is there another Name under the heaven given among men than Jesus whereby we must be saved.” 4:12.


But could the apostles keep up the Proclamation of the Word? Yes … provided … of course. So, first, foremost and indispensable, it dawned on the priests and rulers, “If this council (of these men, the apostles of Jesus whom they say God raised from the dead and call the Christ) BE OF GOD, it cannot be overthrown or brought to nought or as many as obeyed them, be dispersed— to which the council agreed.” 5:34-39.


“So when they had called the apostles and beat them, and commanded them not to speak IN THE NAME OF JESUS, they let them go.”

It was over with the show of power and authority of the high priests and men of Israel over the People of God and their place of worship. The apostles and multitudes of Jesus-followers obtained independence and began an own presbytery in the “house of prayer for all nations”— the Christian Assembly of True Believers.

“And they departed from the presence of the council.” The Christians no longer participated in the Jews’ council affairs or meetings, and founded an own, Christian presbytery, “rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for Jesus’ Name” under (former) Jewish domination, persecution and suppression.


Still was it the end of their suffering not yet. Immediate internal matters demanded change! As it was, the apostles still had no choice, but, “Non-stop every day in the temple and from house to house, they were teaching and evangelising, preaching Jesus the Christ”, themselves!

jerry kelso said:

God is not the God of the dead but the God of the living

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Now wait, this is blasphemous arrogance. Psalm 18:16. 20:6. 22:18-20. 23; "The LORD is the saving strength of His Anointed." "Cast Me not away from Thy Presence, and take not the Holy Spirit away from Me; restore unto Me the joy of Thy Salvation and UPHOLD ME WITH THY FREE SPIRIT... Then shalt Thou be pleased with Thy Sacrifice of Righteousness." "For David speaketh concerning HIM (as saying), I (Jesus), saw the LORD ALWAYS BEFORE MY FACE, FOR HE IS ON MY RIGHT HAND ALWAYS, that I (the Son of God), should not be moved (but rest even in death). Therefore did my heart rejoice and my tongue was glad (in life) that moreover indeed (in death) MY FLESH SHALL REST IN HOPE: BECAUSE THOU WILT NOT LEAVE MY SOUL IN HELL (in life), NEITHER WILT THOU SUFFER THINE HOLY ONE TO SEE CORRUPTION (in death); but Thou wilt (in Resurrection from the dead) MAKE KNOWN TO ME THE WAY OF LIFE; Thou shalt (with Life of Resurrection) make Me FULL of joy, WITH THY COUNTENANCE."

That was how God the Father, the God as of The Dead as of the Living Jesus, "EXALTED" Him in the REST OF GOD even in death and grave.

This has ALWAYS been the faith and witness of Reformed Protestant Faith which God grant I may share in confession.

jerry kelso said:

gerhardebersoehn,

You have not rebutted the scriptures I gave.
Your position is the sabbath is Saturday only for worship and no work.
I showed the scriptures that the the Jews offered burnt offerings and traveled on sabbaths and had solemn assembly which ha so to do with worship on the eighth day.
Tell me how you can be blessed more on Saturday than I can on Sunday. You have about one answer which would be a crutch. Go. Jerry kelso

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My answer is this, I have no answer for Jerry kelso and or his personal viewpoints and or claims and or conclusions and or accusations and or judgments with regard to Gerhard Ebersoehn. That is his problem. If Jerry kelso had a problem with any Scripture, I would have had an answer -- another answer, pertaining such supposed Scripture.

jerry kelso said:

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sabbathkeeper&wife,

1. We both celebrate sabbath; bob on saturday and I on any day.

2. Deliverance for Israel was on the sabbath just like Christ arose. Deuteronomy 5:15; John 20:1

3. Hosea 2:11; feasts and sabbath days, new moons and stolen feasts. Those were a part of the Mosaic law.
2 Corinthians 3:13 the Mosaic law was abolished.

4. God honored many sunday worship days in the old covenant days; 2Chronicles 7:9-10; 29:17; Ezra 3:6; Nehemiah 8:14-18. Eighth day solemn assembly. Pentecost was on the feast of the firstfruits which typified resurrection. 3000 souls were saved on the first day of the week. God blessed the early church daily Acts 1:12-15;2:1;41-47.
The lord's manifestation to the disciples after the resurrection was on the first day of the week John 20:19 was the second first day of the week.
There is nowhere Christ gave recognition to the Old Seventh day sabbath of the Jews after his resurrection.
This is scripture disproving your doctrine so give into this truth of the word. Jerry kelso

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You claim authority with scripture after the cross... however, the new covenant was sealed at the cross, so any changes from the old covenant would have to have been declared prior to the blood covenant at His death. Any statements made post cross that weren't declared by God through Christ prior to His death, cannot form a doctrine of something as important to God as the Sabbath.... read the OT testimony of what was God's continual plea... "why do you profane My Sabbaths?".

Do you imagine that something that big to our Heavenly Father and to Christ, would just silently change? That with not even one declared testimony, of the change of the 7th day Sabbath, to show from the whole of scripture?.

Is this the side of God's testimony you want to be standing friend? Please reason with me and tell me why you think the 7th day Sabbath could be changed without DIRECT Authorization from God through His Word. If not God's, then by who's authority?

EastCoastRemnant said:

You claim authority with scripture after the cross... however, the new covenant was sealed at the cross, so any changes from the old covenant would have to have been declared prior to the blood covenant at His death. Any statements made post cross that weren't declared by God through Christ prior to His death, cannot form a doctrine of something as important to God as the Sabbath.... read the OT testimony of what was God's continual plea... "why do you profane My Sabbaths?".

Do you imagine that something that big to our Heavenly Father and to Christ, would just silently change? That with not even one declared testimony, of the change of the 7th day Sabbath, to show from the whole of scripture?.

Is this the side of God's testimony you want to be standing friend? Please reason with me and tell me why you think the 7th day Sabbath could be changed without DIRECT Authorization from God through His Word. If not God's, then by who's authority?

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eastcoastremnant,

1. 1 Chronicles 7:9-10; Ezra 3:6; Nehemiah 8:14-18. Eighth day-solemn assembly.
Rebut these. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

eastcoastremnant,

1. 1 Chronicles 7:9-10; Ezra 3:6; Nehemiah 8:14-18. Eighth day-solemn assembly.
Rebut these. Jerry kelso

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Ummm, could repost some verses that actually pertain to what you are talking about? Thanx... it makes it easier to rebut.

Nowhere in those verses you gave is there any reference to the 1st day or the 8th day.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Ummm, could repost some verses that actually pertain to what you are talking about? Thanx... it makes it easier to rebut.

Nowhere in those verses you gave is there any reference to the 1st day or the 8th day.

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eastcoastremnant,

1. Sorry, I was in a hurry at break. It is 2 Chronicles 7:9 and Nehemiah 8:18 specifically. Jerry kelso

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

My answer is this, I have no answer for Jerry kelso and or his personal viewpoints and or claims and or conclusions and or accusations and or judgments with regard to Gerhard Ebersoehn. That is his problem. If Jerry kelso had a problem with any Scripture, I would have had an answer -- another answer, pertaining such supposed Scripture.

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gerhardebersoehn,

You have no answer because you don't understand plain statements such as solemn assembly on the eighth day or that the covenant was specifically with the Jews forever and never the gentiles and the church age.
Jesus never said to keep the Saturday's sabbath after the resurrection. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

eastcoastremnant,

1. Sorry, I was in a hurry at break. It is 2 Chronicles 7:9 and Nehemiah 8:18 specifically. Jerry kelso

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The text in 2 Chrinicles 7 doesn't say that the temple dedication happened on Sabbath. Ergo, 8 days from that event does not place it on the 1st day.

Also, the second text in Nehimiah 8 doesn't give the day the feast was on, only saying it was the 1st day of the 7th month.... so the holy assembly held 8 days later, puts it on the 9th day of the month... what day of the week that was is anyone's guess.

Neither of these makes any reference to Sabbath or the 1sy day. If these are some of your texts for standing on 1st day worship, you better heed to words of Christ and worship on the day that was Sanctified and made Holy for us.

I think I shall choose to rest on the day God set aside and sanctified and made holy for us, rather than than one man chooses. Hanging out breaking bread, which they did daily, hiding from the Pharisees OR continuing a Sabbath service on past sunset doesn't hold water as evidence to change the Sabbath. Taking heed to the prophets saying that the "man of sin" would THINK to change them means they still aren't changed, while obviously SOME think they are. Consider all things, scripture included. Church history, world history.....or don't. It's pretty simple. Obedience or disobedience. It calls for a decision. Follow God or the men in the little white hats that think their authority Trump's God's. God or man. It's a very serious thing to hang all one has on a couple of misconceptions because in the end, God's going to use the same laws to judge us by. I'd say He'll also bring up how many people were led astray by ones teaching too. How much blood will one have on their hands. It's no light thing. What would you do if God started showing you all the scriptures about Jesus not changing one jot or one tittle, or how in Hebrews 4 that if Jesus changed the day, HE would've said so, or how the remnant in Revelations keep the commandments of God? This has gone on for months. This is an Adventist forum. YOU aren't here to learn, only argue your man made doctrine. NOTHING is going to change. WE keep God's Sabbath, you keep the day YOU chose. That comes out of your mouth. What more needs to be said? There are people who come here to learn. Sunday worship is in other parts of the forum. You are wasting your breath here. You say things over and over, and many kind people show scripture as to WHY we STILL keep God's Sabbath. We always will because we know the root of Sunday worship. What do you intend to gain here? Seriously.

jerry kelso said:

eastcoastremnant,

1. 1 Chronicles 7:9-10; Ezra 3:6; Nehemiah 8:14-18. Eighth day-solemn assembly.
Rebut these. Jerry kelso

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Again, 'eighth day solemn assembly'? NONE!
"seventh day solemn assembly" -- ONCE, in calendrical seven days in the Seventh Month, from the 15th (1) 16th (2) 17th (3) 18th (4) 19th (5) 20th (6) to the 21st AND LAST day in booths,
<<Nehemiah 8:14-18>>,
"AS IT IS WRITTEN" verse 15. No eighth day!
"Also DAY BY DAY" from the first day (15th) including[*] the last day (21st) ... they kept the feast : SEVEN DAYS."
[* There is no word equivalent of "unto" in Hebrew]

<<Ezra 3:6>>,
"From the first day of the Seventh Month began they to offer burnt offerings..."

<<1 Chronicles 7:9-10>> ............... on and on and on........... NO, <<eighth day>>!

You are a Christian you say? What would every Christian reader expect of you now?
That's right... go ahead! IF, you are a Christian.

Post script,
I must now apologise. I forgot your #95. I am very sorry. GE

jerry kelso said:

eastcoastremnant, 1. Sorry, I was in a hurry at break. It is 2 Chronicles 7:9 and Nehemiah 8:18 specifically. Jerry kelso

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<<2 Chronicles 7:9>>

…is about the inauguration of the temple in the Seventh Month (5:3). Not about Jesus’ “three days thick darkness” in the hell of his Last Passover of Yahweh Suffering, although Solomon did say, “The LORD hath said that He would dwell in thick darkness” with one prophetic realisation about Messiah in view, “that MY NAME might be there … to build an House (the Church) for the NAME of the LORD GOD”, “in Christ” (chapter 6).

“Then at the same time” --in the Seventh Month, 5:3-- they “kept the seven-days-feast” the feast of “tabernacles” figuring forth the coming of Jesus the Anointed, Christ. Read again chapter 6:1-8 but go on after verse 9 and see the most wonderful prophetic vision of Jesus Christ! Verse 18, “But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee!” But “The Word was made flesh … and dwelt among us…” in very deed!


So far the symbolism is the symbolism of the passover in the First Month which the feast of booths after the “Great Day of Atonement or Judgment in the Seventh Month had become but a miniature and shadow of.


Solomon now institutes a new feast “on the day eighth day … the DEDICATION of the altar (after) they had kept the seven days” feast of booths. (8:9) And remember the huge numbers of sacrifices which Solomon had slaughtered for this dedication, 7:5. Keeping the grandeur of Solomon’s temple and its dedication in mind, read chapter 8. O Solomon, the LORD does not require of you sacrifice and offerings of the great and mighty, and does not look at the miracle your construction of this temple has been. The Lord’s praise for Solomon is reserved with clear and stern innuendos. The LORD’S approval rather comes as a rebuke and censure because Solomon brings the LORD GOD these august offerings which He did not require or expect of him or anyone ever. All Solomon’s prayers and praises and achievements in the worship of God, receives reprove and warning from the LORD, but mercifully and graciously. Solomon must never think too much of his own investments and reserves; also not so us, of Solomon’s new invention for which he had to add an eight day to the commanded seven days the LORD GOD commanded Israel to observe the feast of booths in.


For New Testament believers this is a serious matter. Don’t think this kind of free will religion would please our Lord Jesus Christ! O no! Remember John 10. Jesus would not allow, to bring his Passover Sacrifice on the altar of Solomon’s or Herod's majestic altar! (2Chronicles 4) “But He walked – just walked – out of their hands!” He would “make Sacrifice of Himself” on God’s own Altar, and “God will Himself provide a Lamb”, Genesis 22:8. God did not command Solomon or Israel OR CHRISTIANS to keep any “eighth day”—it’s wrong; it is, sin.