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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Discussions often get off topic. The solution on a debate board is to open another thread with a new topic. I often have often seen YECs try to change the subject on threads like this because they know they can't deal with the multitude of solid falsifications of the myth of a worldwide flood.

All we have gotten so far is some stuff about a comet that just won't work at all and an obviously false rumor the Grand Canyon about scientists being shot and killed.

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gladiatrix

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Maybe this nutty stuff is from Hovind because he doesn't hesitate to accuse people of murder ("Evolution made'm do it!")
Unmasking Kent Hovind


Or maybe it was AIG who wrote this muck:
Stolen-children' controversy has evolutionary tie!

 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Maybe this nutty stuff is from Hovind because he doesn't hesitate to accuse people of murder ("Evolution made'm do it!")

Maybe but this seems to out Hovind Hovind which I would not have thought possible.

Added in edit: I just realized that he might well be a troll. I wonder if we got taken in.

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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I never did try to change the subject-- but i'm sorry if thats what happened.
I'll be honest and say that I never really read many of the beginning posts-- i just kind of panned through them looking for something interesting-- infact-- I don't think i'm sure what this thread is about! But i'm gunna go back to post #1- and start from the beginning
Sorry bout that
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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No problem. When your view is challenged and you can't answer the specific challenge it is natural to try to put forth other evidence you think supports your view. It is also natural not to want to read all the posts on a long thread.

I am glad you are going to try to answer the specific problems raised in the first posts. If you come up with anything I am sure people will be glad to discuss it with you.

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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This thread represents just a tiny fraction of the problems that the fossil record creates for flood believers and yet we have seen no answers. Why not? In fact there are none. A worldwide flood could not have produced the fossil record and that's all there is to it.

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Frumious Bandersnatch

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So YECs, you keep claiming to have evidence and that it is all a matter of interpretation. We hear this over and over but when a thread like this showing clear evidence that falsfies the myth of a worldwide flood is presented all we get is silence or attempts to change the subject. Why is that? Why can no YEC explain how a worldwide flood deposited the fossil record? The answer seems pretty obvious. The worldwide flood is a myth.

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JohnR7

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Douglaangu said:
You know you'll never get answer to them.
In all the time I've spent reading these forums I have never seen a creation answer those questions, or similar ones. I wonder why.

Umm, maybe because you have not been here very long.

Also, creationists just figure that people who do not believe in a world wide flood are deceived and they don't know what they are talking about. When they try to show evolutionists the error in their thinking, they do not want to accept it, so creationists leave them be.

Anyways, sense you claim not to have heard the theory, here it is. Around 12,000 years ago, the world was a very different world than what it is now. According to the creationist theory all the ice from the last major ice age melted, the water underground somehow came up to the surface, and all the water in the atmosphere fell to the earth. This caused most of the earth to be underwater and it killed off a lot of the life that was here on the planet at the time.

Science of course claims that is not possible, there is just not enough water in the polar caps, underground and in the atmosphere to cover the whole earth. But creationists do not believe that.

Then what happened next is that we entered into a small ice age and the polar caps began to freeze again. Dr. Dino's theory is that the earth was hit by a very cold astroid, that caused the poles to freeze so fast that you see animals instantly frozen with food still in their stomack. His research consisted of a conversation on the telephone to a scientist that works for birds eye frozen food. Who gave Dr. Dino his opinion on how cold it would have to be for the mastodon to be frozen in the ice like that with food still in it's tummy.

There has of course been a lot of flooding around the world, the ocean level is 400 feet higher than it was 12,000 years ago. So when they say that they think they have falsified world wide flooding, they do not really mean that, because no one questions that there was world wide flooding in the last 12,000 years. What they mean is that they do not believe the highest mountains were underwater, because according to their math, there is not enough water in the world to cover all of the mountains all the way to the top.

Of course the word in the Bible means foot hills, not mountains, but that I suppose would be the subject of another thread.

I personally believe that Noah's flood was a local flood in that the animals he had on his ark were just from one biodiverse area. A lot of them were domesticated animals that God created about 6000 years ago with Adam and Eve at a time that is known as the dawn of civilization. If for example you go to where Noah began, inthe Tigris Euphrates valley, you will find that is the only place in the world that wheat grows in the wild. If you go to Armenia where the Ark landed, you will find that is the cradle of civilization and that is where wheat was first cultivated.
 
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Nathan Poe

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JohnR7 said:
Umm, maybe because you have not been here very long.
128 posts to his credit; I'd say he's been here long enough to know the score. I've been here a long time, and I've never seen any cerationist show an evolutionist the "error" of their thinking.
Since creationists are at least as interested in converting evolutionists as "educating" them, I can't imagine why they'd "leave them be." 12,000 years? For a YEC, that number's going to have to be a lot lower.
Science of course claims that is not possible, there is just not enough water in the polar caps, underground and in the atmosphere to cover the whole earth. But creationists do not believe that.
Well, look at your own words: All the ice melted (at once, which would require enough heat to fry all life on Earth), all the water underground somehow came up to the surface (which would require a geological upheaval that would practically crack the planet), and all the water in the atmosphere fell to Earth (which would require the water cycle to suddenly shut down and prevent evaporation, leaving the Earth's air dry as a bone).

And of course, all three of these events would have to happen at the same time.

Is this possible? Sure, it could happen.
Is there any evidence that it did happen? nothing credible.
Would we be sitting here now if it had happened 12,000 years ago? Not a chance. Ignoring the fact that you quote Kent Hovind (which is a deathblow to anyone's credibility), when in the last 12,000 years did this "small ice age" happen? What evidence is there?

As for the animals frozen with food in their stomach, does the word "avalanche" mean anything to you?
You call that research? Most scientists have laboratories, Hovind has the supermarket. I'm less than impressed.
Everyone questions that, Johhny; where have you been?
If the Bible doesn't mean mountains, why does it say mountains?
(Emphaisis mine) The Bible is pretty clear that we're talking more than foothills here. After all, some animals live pretty high up, and they died too.
Wouldn't a Bible literalist say that the Bible means what it says? Whoa, a lot to cover here:

"local flood": That's the most sensible thing in the paragraph.

"One biodiverse area": Diverse enough for two of every living thing? I believe the area is called "Earth."

"domesticated animals that God created about 6000 years ago": God did not create domesticated animals. Animals are wild. Man domesticated them. So what was on the Earth 12,000 years ago?

"inthe Tigris Euphrates valley, you will find that is the only place in the world that wheat grows in the wild.": I've seen wheat growing in the wild on the side of the New Jersey Trunpike. I doubt anyone is cultivating it.

"If you go to Armenia where the Ark landed, you will find that is the cradle of civilization and that is where wheat was first cultivated": I see the connection; legend says the ark landed there, and it's the cradle of civilization. Chicken or the Egg; whcih came first?
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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JohnR7 said:
Science of course claims that is not possible, there is just not enough water in the polar caps, underground and in the atmosphere to cover the whole earth. But creationists do not believe that.

Creationists do not believe that because they can't; not because they actually have any support for their hypothesis. Creationists don't care about evidence, they care about theology.

A lot of them were domesticated animals that God created about 6000 years ago with Adam and Eve at a time that is known as the dawn of civilization.

So I guess you thought you'd wait for a while before trotting out your falsehoods again? Maybe you thought people wouldn't remember?

As was pointed out, domesticated animals are a result of human intervention, not divine intervention.

Furthermore, as was amply explained to you many times in the past, domesticated animals, domesticated plants, and sedentary, agriculturally based civilizations existed well before 6,000 years ago. Thus, your theory is demonstrably incorrect.
 
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Cantuar

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Dr. Dino's theory is that the earth was hit by a very cold astroid, that caused the poles to freeze so fast that you see animals instantly frozen with food still in their stomack.

Is this for real? I thought creationists were terribly concerned about scenarios not violating basic physical laws. The only way an asteroid (comet?) would be "very cold" when it hit the surface of the Earth would be if the Earth didn't have any atmosphere. Bit of a challenge for dinosaurs and mammoths, really.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Given the way Hovind mangles science left and right, it's not surprising at all he has such a "theory".

I mean this is a man who is quoted as once saying: "If you are traveling down the highway at sixty miles an hour, and turn your headlights on, how fast is the light going from your headlights? Compared to you, it is going at the speed of light. Compared to someone on the sidewalk it is going at the speed of light plus sixty miles an hour."

It's mind-boggling how he can screw up such basic science.
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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It wouldn't matter anyway. Any object that hits the earth that is originally outside the earth's gravitional field must hit with at least the earth's escape velocity of 11,100 m/sec and would probably hit a lot faster. If it had enough water to cover the earth to any significant depth the kinetic energy would be enough to kill everything on the earth's surface many time over. Little details like that don't bother Dr. Dino who apparently doesn't understand the least bit of science and counts on his followers being ignorant of basic science facts as well.

Meanwhile we see that no creationist has yet attempted to give an interpretation of how the fossil record could have resulted from a worldwide flood. Just another demonstration of how false the claim that "it is only a matter of interpretation" really is.

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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Siliconaut

Not to be confused with the other Norman Hartnell
Not to mention there is no sign of a large asteroid impact during the last 12.000 years, and none of the devastation that would occur if a planetoid with sufficient ice "on board" to flood the earth would actually hit the planet.

Devastation like in "the last ice age was a joke, let's go back to massive tectonic upheaval and vulcanic nuclear winter for a whole lot of millennia for those for whom the blast was not good enough".
 
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Megachihuahua

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Just said:
Do you honestly wonder why?
Its bloody obvious why in my opinion!
It is. We can't convince you that you're wrong, you'll just brush us off. observe:
I know I'm just a creatonist infedel, but what reason do you have to believe carbon 14 rots at a uniform rate? Maybe something happened to speed rotting, example a nuke going off three miles from it. Or a flood, or an insect deluge...
Damning evidence? Yes. When you have the assumption evolution is correct, of course a molar in a rock proves it wrong. Or the lack of.
"All right, Dr.Dimwit, I am about to prove your theory incorrect. If your moronic religous bs is right this 4x4 rock should have a molar in it."
Incoherant ramblings forever!
 
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Pete Harcoff

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How would a flood and/or insect deluge change the rate of radioactive carbon decay?
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Damning evidence? Yes. When you have the assumption evolution is correct

The evidence was originally collected by people who assumed that a young earth and global flood was correct. Assumptions about evolution have nothing to do with it. The only assumption required is that God didn't created a world to look like it in 4.5 billion years old and that there never was a worldwide flood.

Added in edit: Would you like to try to explain how a worldwide flood created the fossil record? If so have at it. Maybe you can do what no YEC has been able to do to date but somehow I doubt it.

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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