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clergy questions

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dignitized

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Since with any luck the anti-catholic thread concerning the clergy will be closed soon, I figure its better to start a clean thread.



This thread is intended for questions for or about clergy.



The question was asked as to WHY priests are currently celibate in the Latin rite of the RCC.

I think we first should note that it is ONLY in the Latin rite that priest are ASKED to maintain a celibate state. In all other rites (Byzantine, Coptic, Marian, etc), priest are in fact required to marry.

I will refrain from give the reasons WHY the RCC asks their priests to be celibate since 1 - I am not RC and 2 - in my church the priests are married.
 

isshinwhat

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priest are in fact required to marry.

In no Catholic Rite can priests marry. A married man may become a priest, but it is never a requirement that a priest be married, because the bishops from these rites may only be taken from the celibate men of the clergy.

Neal
 
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dignitized

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In my understanding, in order to be a priest in an oriental churches, one MUST be first a married man. Bishops are chosen from the deaconate, or from the widowed clergy. I do know of cases were married men were put forward for the Episcopate but in order to enter into that ordination their wife had to agree to join a convent.

I do not imagine that the practice differes greatly amongst those unitd with Rome, but I cannot say for sure.
 
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nyj

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Originally posted by Br. Max
I stand corrected. I meant to say that in all rites of the church except the Latin, a man is required to be married inorder to become a priest.

 

Actually this is not true.  In the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church, at least in the United States, the priests cannot marry, just like their Latin Rite counter-parts. 

 

In the Orthodox Church, priests have the option to marry but in order to rise to the rank of Bishop they must remain celibate. 

 

In both circumstances, the priest, if he is to be married, must marry before he becomes ordained but it is not necessary that he be married at all.
 
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dignitized

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nyj: I have to disagree with you. The Metropolitan of the Byzantine rite dioceses is here in PGH and the local perish has married priests.

Now, either there is some rule breaking going on, or the ban against the eastern rites marrying has been lifted. but, :) either way, the notion that the RCC forbids all married clergy is null and void :)
 
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pax

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Originally posted by Br. Max
nyj: I have to disagree with you. The Metropolitan of the Byzantine rite dioceses is here in PGH and the local perish has married priests.

Now, either there is some rule breaking going on, or the ban against the eastern rites marrying has been lifted. but, :) either way, the notion that the RCC forbids all married clergy is null and void :)

No Rite only admits married men to the Priesthood.  I think the ban on married Eastern Rite Priests has been lifted in certain circumstances in certain eparchies in the United State (or at least, that's what I've been able to gather from EWTN's Q&A forums).  In the Latin Church the Priests must be celibate and not married.  The only exception I know of is a provision made by JPII meant for married Anglican priest converts to Catholicism. 
 
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isshinwhat

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This shed some light on the situation for me...

Neal

http://www.new-ostrog.org/celibate.html

Friday, October 17, 1997

Dear brother in Christ,

Rejoice in the Lord!

I am sending this note as a personal communication, not for publication, although I have made the thoughts contained in it public at meetings of our own Synod of Bishops meetings and to Old Calendar hierarchs in Greece, as well as in lectures and talks to Orthodox groups.

I ask your forgiveness for being forward about these matters and taking your time, the more so since I realize that you have much work on your hands already.

There are references which occur in Voithia's Web reports to "celibate clergy." There is a very serious matter here. The Orthodox Church recognizes married priests and monastic clergy, but there is no place for something called "celibate clergy." In the Orthodox Church, one is either a married priest or a monastic. If one is a monastic, then the dwelling place is a monastery. The idea of "celibate clergy" is a most serious error. I would never tolerate the idea of a "celibate priest" in my Archdiocese. If a person who desires to be a priest is not married, he has to become a monk and live in a monastery. I must say that I am speaking only for myself, and I do not pretend to speak for other hierarchs. However, it seems to me that there is great danger in violating the Tradition of the Church in these regards or introducing the Roman Catholic practice of having "celibate clergy." For my part, if a man came to me and said he wished to be a parish priest but did not wish to be married, I would want to know the reasons why he did not want to marry. It is one thing to send a mature monk-priest out to serve a nearby parish which is without a priest, so long as he can return to his monastery in a short time, and does not live outside the monastery. It is quite another to have artificial monks and decorative archimandrites living solo and serving parishes on a full time basis. These things are not normal and certainly not in accord with the Tradition of the Orthodox Church or the best interests of the faithful or the nominal monk-priests.

I have no way to address these problems in the Greek Church, or any other except within my own Diocese, but I would like to respectfully suggest to you that these are problems which do need to be addressed because they are part of the "abnormal" structure of current Church life that are symptoms of the overall illness. The problem of having "celibate clergy" needs to be addressed at some time along the way, for reasons that should be obvious, aside from the matter that it is not in the Tradition of the Church. The same must be said of "monastics" who disdain to live and struggle in actual monasticism and live in monasteries.

When the Church resolved to select bishops from among the monastics, the intention was not simply to have single men as bishops, but to select hierarchs from among men who had struggled to a certain spiritual condition. It is understood by the holy fathers and the Sacred Tradition that one passes from purification to illumination to glorification. These are concepts which are not even taught any longer in our churches, and most of our people are no longer even aware of the concept. Nevertheless, the idea is not simply to have bachelors for bishops, but to select men who are aware of this concept and have striven in monastic life to a special level of maturity and at least attained to illumination. If this were not so, what would be the point in having unmarried hierarchs? The Church had a substantial and significant reason for her decision to take the hierarchs from among experienced monastics, not merely permanent bachelors who have had a pair of scissors waved over their heads (sometimes only the day before they were consecrated). Perhaps our monasteries no longer produce such men, but they do produce men who have struggled with their passions and attained a modicum of humility, compassion arid inner moral strength, all of which are absolutely necessary for offering a leadership to the Church which is cooperative and depends upon respect rather that fear. Respect is not available "on demand," though fear may be, and so we see an attempt being made to "control" rather than lead, and this attempt at control appears to be resorting to a kind of "terrorism." This is all so unnecessary arid destructive. Think what all this does to the faith and resolve of our young people.

I am only inviting your attention to these matters and suggesting that at sometime they need to be addressed because they are a part of the whole problem, and there is little value in solving only pieces of the problem without looking at the whole thing. There really is an illness and covering the symptoms will do little to heal the sickness.

Again, please forgive me for being forward, but these are matters which are a deep and sincere concern to me because I love the Church and live for it, and now that someone is finally taking a position about the illnesses that beset us, it seems that it would be tragic to miss the opportunity to address the whole picture.

Also, I do appreciate your defense of priests who have been dismissed or punished capriciously, often because they are seen as not being politically correct to a given hierarch or group.



Your brother in Christ,

<signed>



Archbishop Lazar Puhalo
 
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nyj

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Originally posted by Br. Max
nyj: I have to disagree with you. The Metropolitan of the Byzantine rite dioceses is here in PGH and the local perish has married priests.

&nbsp;

Yes, and I bet those married priests came here from Europe.&nbsp;

&nbsp;


Originally posted by Br. Max
Now, either there is some rule breaking going on, or the ban against the eastern rites marrying has been lifted. but, :) either way, the notion that the RCC forbids all married clergy is null and void :)

&nbsp;

First off, there are no rules being broken.&nbsp; I know for a FACT that in the United States, Eastern Rite priests cannot marry.&nbsp; Want to know why?&nbsp; Probably because married men (like I was) would ask for permission from their bishop to change Rite's and then try to get into the seminary.&nbsp; It would be a loophole.&nbsp; The Church has closed it.

&nbsp;

Second, the notion that the RCC forbids all married clergy has always been a strawman argument.&nbsp; The archdiocese, which is Latin Rite,&nbsp; I live in has three married priests.&nbsp; They are all converts from Anglicanism.&nbsp; Obviously, they were not forced to get divorced when they converted. ;)
 
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Hoonbaba

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Originally posted by Br. Max
The question was asked as to WHY priests are currently celibate in the Latin rite of the RCC.

Hi Br. Max,

I don't have the best answer but someone shared something with me, which I thought I'd post here:

I was discussing marriage vs. celibacy with a friend of mine and here's what he had to say:

Finally, the Catholics are dead right about this that there are two main vocations: (1) The Priesthood/Religious service vs. (2) Family service. One must focus on one or the other. No protestant pastor can do both well, though many try. Every day protestant pastors must choose between their family or the Church. The days they are good pastors, they are terrible to their own families. The days they are good to their own families they are terrible to the needs of their flocks. It is horrible, and the children turn out rotten and the wives are neglected. Men will normally favor their job over their families if they feel a strong calling in their jobs--the families get neglected, which is a sin.

By the way, my friend is not Catholic =P

In anycase, I see a lot of truth to that statement. And lately it's really been making me wonder whether I should remain celibate, or if I should eventually get married.

I can almost see two different paths I can choose from. The big question is: Which one?

I never really thought about the question until recently....like yesterday, and now this issue is something very real to me. I don't know what is best for me and I don't know what I ought to do. But this much I know: Celibacy is a gift, just as much as marriage is a gift (1 Cor 7:7). In fact the word for 'gift' used in this passage refers to 'spiritual gift'.

1 Cor 12:4-6 implies (based on 1 Cor 7:7) that those who get married will have a different ministry than those who remain celibate. Now I'm willing to bet that being married doesn't mean someone is 'better' than not being married since every Christian is part of the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:22-24).

But the decision to go one way means I won't be going the other way. I'm somewhat stressed out by the fact that I have a choice to make: Marry a woman, or remain celibate. Because, I know that if I were to marry, my ministry wouldn't be the same if I were celibate.

I was wrestling with this issue all night and even now it's still 'bothering' me. Because I know I want to remain celibate for future ministry, like perhaps the deaconate (heh I'm not even Catholic yet!), but a part of me also wants to get married.

Wow...I digress...LOL =)

God bless!

-Jason
 
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dignitized

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hoon: I have to disagree that a man cannot do both well. I know many men who do both very well. :)

The vast majority of the priests in the church I belong to are married men. I can mention to you Fr. Gary. He is the pastor of our mission in San Diego. He is married to a wonderful woman who is also the superior over the chapter in that area. They have two children. The eldest - their daughter is the Assistant Superior general for our order and the first grade teacher in the school our school here in Pittsburgh :) she grew up with her father functioning as both priest and pastor and mother functioning as a superior over close to 40 members having chapter nights in their home. Their son is also very active in the church even though he has not yet to this date taken his vows. Fr. Gary in fact just built a new church there in San Diego for his 200 member congregation :) which he built over the last 15 years since that mission was founded and he did all that while rasing two kids. :)
 
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dignitized

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hoon: there are life struggles no matter what you do or how you live, but God gives each of us the grace sufficient to live each day as it comes. :) IF you live in fear of what could be or what might be - the devil has won. He wants us afraid to live for God in every aspect of our lives. He wants us to push God out of our daily lives and regale him to 2 hours once a week on a Sunday morning. That way he can deceive us better :sigh: Ya know, the basics of religious life should be the basics of every persons life. Many people are realizing this, which is why holiness movements are on the rise in Christian body as a whole.

What would you say if I told you of the 200 people we have accepted into the order in the last couple of years, 85% have been young people! In a day and age when young people are more interested in their own selfish lives, a life lived in sacrifice to the Gospel of Christ is the best surest way to reach them. Kids today can smell a phones coming a mile away.
 
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