Clarence Larkin Charts

Christian Gedge · Aug 27, 2020

Douggg said:
"most holy", some, not me, interpret as the Holy of Holies chamber in the tabernacle.

Can we talk reasonably with you Doug? JGR gave you a heap of great verses, not the least of which was Ephesians 2:19-21.

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord."

The temple made without mans hands IS the 'most holy.' WE are that temple! That is what Daniel was talking about when he said, "Seventy weeks are determined ... to anoint the most holy." Until you understand that fundamental truth how are you ever going to understand the rest of Daniel's prophecy?

You make me weep Doug. Daniel 9:24 is the most amazing description of the atonement in the entire Bible and it floats right over your head.

Douggg · Aug 27, 2020

Christian Gedge said:
You make me weep Doug. Daniel 9:24 is the most amazing description of the atonement in the entire Bible and it floats right over your head.

The cross and the resurrection is the most amazing description of atonement, not Daniel 9:24. Atoned for by the cross and redeemed by the resurrection.

Daniel 9:24 is 70 weeks (of years) of prophecy - determined upon Daniel's people - the Jews, and Jerusalem... not the nations. The Jews and Jerusalem have yet to say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

The covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not the new covenant in Christ, but the Mt. Sinai covenant on the Jews' prophesied path to accepting Jesus and the new covenant, and saying blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

CG, you are looking at Daniel 9 as theology, and not prophesy. For it to be theology, there would have to be something in the text about Jesus's resurrection. Because without the resurrection, you know what Paul's say about us. 1Corinthians15:12-19. 1Corinthians15:20-23.

solid_core · Aug 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
When I sat down with a preacher to discuss the pretrib doctrine he shared one of Larkin's charts with me, instead of using scripture from his Bible.
He then sent me home with two books on prophecy written by Tim LaHaye.

Lol, yes, this is how it frequently works, in churches.

jgr · Aug 28, 2020

Douggg said:
The cross and the resurrection is the most amazing description of atonement, not Daniel 9:24. Atoned for by the cross and redeemed by the resurrection.

Daniel 9:24 is 70 weeks (of years) of prophecy - determined upon Daniel's people - the Jews, and Jerusalem... not the nations. The Jews and Jerusalem have yet to say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

The covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not the new covenant in Christ, but the Mt. Sinai covenant on the Jews' prophesied path to accepting Jesus and the new covenant, and saying blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

CG, you are looking at Daniel 9 as theology, and not prophesy. For it to be theology, there would have to be something in the text about Jesus's resurrection. Because without the resurrection, you know what Paul's say about us. 1Corinthians15:12-19. 1Corinthians15:20-23.

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Acts 10
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Is Daniel one of all the prophets?

Is Daniel a part of all the Scriptures?

Was Christ saying that He is in Daniel?

Do the things concerning Himself include His New Covenant?

Is the remission of sins the New Covenant?

Is the claim that The covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not the new covenant in Christ false?

The answers are self-evident.

Your turn.

Cite any Scripture that proves that Christ was wrong, and that He and His New Covenant are not in Daniel.

BABerean2 · Aug 28, 2020

Douggg said:
"most holy" , some, not me, interpret as the Holy of Holies chamber in the tabernacle.

The "Mountain Peaks" of Prophecy was the Larkin chart the preacher drew for me, which claims the Old Testament Saints could not see the Church down in the valley.

Larkin ignored the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

The New Covenant: Bob George

Larkin also ignored Romans 9:24-27, which reveals that Hosea saw the Gentiles being grafted in among the Israelites.

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Douggg · Aug 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Larkin ignored the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

On Larkins charts - "covenants", he has Jeremiah 31 annotated...

BABerean2 · Aug 28, 2020

Douggg said:
On Larkins charts - "covenants", he has Jeremiah 31 annotated...

View attachment 283470

Why did Larkin not include Jeremiah 31 in his The "Mountain Peaks" of Prophecy chart?

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Douggg · Aug 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Why did Larkin not include Jeremiah 31 in his The "Mountain Peaks" of Prophecy chart?

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I have would have to look at his Mountain Peaks charts to comment. But it appears from his covenants chart, he viewed the Jews, Israel, as embracing the Jeremiah 31 new covenant sometime in the 7 years and into the millennium.

Covenant and New Covenant theology missed the boat when they did not think that Israel would ever be a nation in the land again. I remember a long time ago listening live on the radio to J. Vernon Mcgee, through the bible broadcast, when he said my belov-ed in his grandfatherly texas accent - may I say to you that the modern state of Israel has nothing to do with bible prophecy. .... That's the only thing I remember him saying.

Anyone here ever listened to J. Vernon Mcgee ? J. Vernon went to be with the Lord in 1988.

BABerean2 · Aug 28, 2020

Douggg said:
I have would have to look at his Mountain Peaks charts to comment. But it appears from his covenants chart, he viewed the Jews, Israel, as embracing the Jeremiah 31 new covenant sometime in the 7 years and into the millennium.

Like other Dispensationalists, Larkin is attempting to ignore the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, which prove the New Covenant was fulfilled during the first century.

"Now friends..."

Yes. I have heard McGee.
However, I do not ever remember the man talking about the fact that the political machinations of the Rothschild family were responsible for the creation of the modern State of Israel. Never in the video below did Jacob Rothschild give the credit to God.

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Douggg · Aug 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Like other Dispensationalists, Larkin is attempting to ignore the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, which prove the New Covenant was fulfilled during the first century.

"Now friends..."

Yes. I have heard McGee.
However, I do not ever remember the man talking about the fact that the political machinations of the Rothschild family was responsible for the creation of the modern State of Israel. Never in the video below did Jacob Rothschild give the credit to God.

.

Larkin's charts recognize that Israel would become a nation again before the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 begin, event though Larkin lived in 1850-1924.

BABerean2 · Aug 28, 2020

Douggg said:
Larkin's charts recognize that Israel would become a nation again before the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 begin, event though Larkin lived in 1850-1924.

Since Zionist lawyer Samuel Untermeyer helped fund the publication of the Scofield Reference Bible, we should not be surprised...

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Douggg · Aug 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Since Zionist lawyer Samuel Untermeyer helped fund the publication of the Scofield Reference Bible, we should not be surprised...
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It turned out that Larkin was right and the covenant and new covenant theology groups were wrong. All those videos you are posting just show denial of reality.

BABerean2 · Aug 28, 2020

Douggg said:
Israel would become a nation again before the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 begin, event though Larkin lived in 1850-1924.

Did Larkin erase Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which reveal a time period of about 7 years when the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles?

Do you think Paul was confused in Romans 1:16, when he said the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews?

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Douggg · Aug 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Did Larkin erase Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which reveal a time period of about 7 years when the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles?

Do you think Paul was confused in Romans 1:16, when he said the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews?

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None of the apostles related that 7 years with the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27. The new covenant was confirmed the day that Jesus rose from his body being dead and appeared to the disciples.

I am sure that Larkin was thinking about Ezekiel 38/39 and Daniel 7 the little horn person in his charts on Israel being back in the land when the 7 years begin. And it turns out that Larkin was right and Covenant and New Covenant theologies wrong in their eschatology regarding Israel a nation again in the end times.

__________________________________________________________

Why do you think the resurrection of the messiah cutoff is not found in Daniel 9? Only that the messiah would be cutoff.

Think about it. Who thought he would be avoiding the Kingdom of God replacing his own kingdom's rule of the world by having the messiah killed?

Douggg · Aug 28, 2020

Clarence Larkin had a degree in mechanical engineering. And was a professional draftsman as well.

I think both of those factors weighed heavily in the schematic form of his charts. In mechanical engineering, systems are often represented by schematics made up of circles, squares, rectangles, triangles , diamonds, and other geographic shapes with labels inside of the circles etc.... and everything would be connected with lines.

People not familiar with that sort of use of schematics in engineering - might not pick up on the carry over into Larkin's charts. So that is the reason I am pointing it out.

BABerean2 · Aug 28, 2020

Douggg said:
None of the apostles related that 7 years with the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27.

Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.
The New Covenant was promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Daniel 9:24 is found fulfilled in Hebrews 10:16-18, which quotes directly from Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the "anointing" is found in Acts of the Apostles 10:38.

How much clearer could it be?

There is no singular antecedent for an antichrist in Daniel chapter 9, and there is no "Gap" of almost 2,000 years found in the passage.

Why did the 1599 Geneva Bible assume that the Covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27, is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28?
The scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28.

Why do Dispensationalists intentionally ignore Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18?

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Douggg · Aug 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.
The New Covenant was promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Daniel did not refer to the new covenant but the Mt. Sinai covenant in his prayer in Daniel 9:1-19, before the angel appeared to him.

BABerean2 said:
Daniel 9:24 is found fulfilled in Hebrews 10:16-18, which quotes directly from Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the "anointing" is found in Acts of the Apostles 10:38.

None of the apostles referred to the 7 years that Covenant and New Covenant theology groups claim as being a fulfillment of the 70th week in Daniel 9:27. BaB2 you are presenting man-made ideas that failed - Larkin got it right. Israel is over there for everyone to see.

jgr · Aug 29, 2020

Douggg said:
None of the apostles referred to the 7 years that Covenant and New Covenant theology groups claim as being a fulfillment of the 70th week in Daniel 9:27.

None of the apostles referred to seven decapitated years lying more than two millennia into an indeterminate future.

Nor did Christ.

Nor did anyone in the true Church prior to the 19th century.

It is modernist futurism's fantasy and fallacy.

Douggg said:
Larkin got it right.

Larkin admitted to espousing Riberan futurism originating in the counter-reformation of the apostate papacy.

Is futurism today proud of its apostate heritage?

BABerean2 · Aug 29, 2020

Douggg said:
Larkin got it right. Israel is over there for everyone to see.

Which Israel?

Is it Israel of the promise, or Israel of the flesh from Romans 9:8?

Is it the "remnant" of Israelites who remained faithful to God, or the Baal worshipers from Romans 11:1-5?

See also Romans 2:28-29, and 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11, and Revelation 2:9, and Revelation 3:9, and Revelation 11:8.

Pastor Chuck Baldwin explains the difference in the message below.

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Douggg · Aug 29, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Which Israel?

Is it Israel of the promise, or Israel of the flesh from Romans 9:8?

Is it the "remnant" of Israelites who remained faithful to God, or the Baal worshipers from Romans 11:1-5?

See also Romans 2:28-29, and 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11, and Revelation 2:9, and Revelation 3:9, and Revelation 11:8.

Pastor Chuck Baldwin explains the difference in the message below.

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100% of all Christians were at one time in their lives - non-Christians. And not one person is a Christian by happen stance, because no one comes to God unless God draws them, John 6:44. God has a time table for the Jews, en masse, to come to believe in Jesus - according to His Divine Will.

Israel the nation, is the nation God identifies by being blood descendants of Jacob. And since it was God who stated the miracle of a nation borne in a single day - God is the One who determined who Israel, the people of making up the descendants of Jacob, are. Let God do the thinking, and we doing the praise and the praying.

Clarence Larkin Charts

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