Circumcision

KitKatMatt · May 10, 2015

Strathos said:
I'm pretty sure I was anesthetized.

Circumcised babies tend to cry for days afterwards because of the pain. Having a fresh wound on a very sensitive area stuffed in a hot, wet diaper with irritants like the diaper pad, urine, and feces rubbing all over it don't make a fun time.

Our family had lots of baby boys when I was growing up.

football5680 · May 10, 2015

Kiritsugu Emiyah said:
Is it still relevant to Christian living?

It never was part of Christian living because it was unnecessary to be considered a Christian. It is optional and I have no problem with it. The benefits outweigh the risks.

High Fidelity · May 10, 2015

It's something that an adult should decide.

Parental powers shouldn't include the unnecessary removal of bodily matter for religious, cosmetic or any other non-medical reason.

And before people mention hygiene, that's not an argument at all. Teach them to be hygienic for goodness sake.

Eudaimonist · May 10, 2015

Kiritsugu Emiyah said:
I no longer support circumcision of infants. I think you should let the child grow and decide for their self.

I completely agree. It's unfortunate that this practice is still associated with religious identity.

I realize that most circumcised guys don't care that they have been circumcised, but I think that the principle of self-determination holds. If there is a medical reason for doing so, that's something different, but the argument that it is more hygienic really doesn't hold in societies in which one may have regular showers or baths.

eudaimonia,

Mark

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · May 10, 2015

Kiritsugu Emiyah said:
What do you guys think?...

I think that we are dealing with manufactured outrage.

Apparently some people do not have anything better to do than fight stupid culture wars.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has concluded that the benefits of circumcision for newborns outweigh the risks. The CDC has concluded that circumcision is beneficial.

But some people would not be able to function without something to be outraged over, apparently. Circumcision is a good candidate because of its association with religion and because it is supposedly embedded in sex-negativism.

Start a thread about how Native Americans have been systematically oppressed for several centuries and you might get a few days of responses. Start a thread about circumcision and it is likely to be active for weeks. What could be more outrageous than circumcision?

Kiritsugu Emiyah · May 10, 2015

football5680 said:
It never was part of Christian living because it was unnecessary to be considered a Christian. It is optional and I have no problem with it. The benefits outweigh the risks.

What benefit?

Kiritsugu Emiyah · May 10, 2015

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
I think that we are dealing with manufactured outrage.

Apparently some people do not have anything better to do than fight stupid culture wars.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has concluded that the benefits of circumcision for newborns outweigh the risks. The CDC has concluded that circumcision is beneficial.

But some people would not be able to function without something to be outraged over, apparently. Circumcision is a good candidate because of its association with religion and because it is supposedly embedded in sex-negativism.

Start a thread about how Native Americans have been systematically oppressed for several centuries and you might get a few days of responses. Start a thread about circumcision and it is likely to be active for weeks. What could be more outrageous than circumcision?

What are the benefits?

Eudaimonist · May 10, 2015

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
I think that we are dealing with manufactured outrage.

I'm not outraged by circumcision -- there are certainly much bigger fish to fry -- but I do think it is wrong to take that decision away from people by imposing it on them as little babies. That is all that I am saying.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Cearbhall · May 10, 2015

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
I think that we are dealing with manufactured outrage.

Apparently some people do not have anything better to do than fight stupid culture wars.

You could say that about anything. It's not an argument.

football5680 said:
The benefits outweigh the risks.

What supposed benefits are still recognized by the medical community and are considered to be a valid justification for the procedure on their own, without taking cultural factors into consideration?

2ndCovanent · May 10, 2015

When I think of circumcision I think of why would God want sex to be less of a focus in our lives. It's not like he was telling is to chop them off completely, but just make them less sensitive.

It's interesting that the OT is the one who says don't chop the whole thing off but Jesus actually says if it offends you then chop it off but none of these observations really add or remove to the meaning that sex and pleasure in general should not be the focal point of our lives especially when they can only be carried out between few people.

Desk trauma · May 10, 2015

2ndCovanent said:
When I think of circumcision I think of why would God want sex to be less of a focus in our lives. It's not like he was telling is to chop them off completely, but just make them less sensitive.

If that argument is so compelling surely you could get adults to agree to it without inflicting it on infants?

KitKatMatt · May 10, 2015

Yeah, infants don't really need to worry about focusing on sex...

Let adults make the choice to get circumcised so that sex is less of a focus in their lives. Not that circumcision even meets that goal, but it the decision should be left to the individual.

Tess · May 10, 2015

Denny Crane said:
Parental powers shouldn't include the unnecessary removal of bodily matter for religious, cosmetic or any other non-medical reason.

Eudaimonist said:
I completely agree. It's unfortunate that this practice is still associated with religious identity.

K9_Trainer said:
I'm against infant circumcision. I think it is something that an individual should be able to choose for himself, for his own reasons, when he becomes an adult....Not a decision for parents.

Cearbhall said:
If there is no medical justification for the irreversible removal of this genital part that does indeed increase sensation, then it's an easy comparison.

^ I agree with all this

2ndCovanent · May 10, 2015

Desk trauma said:
If that argument is so compelling surely you could get adults to agree to it without inflicting it on infants?

KitKatMatt said:
Yeah, infants don't really need to worry about focusing on sex...

Let adults make the choice to get circumcised so that sex is less of a focus in their lives. Not that circumcision even meets that goal, but it the decision should be left to the individual.

All round I would say that it is all symbolic. Allegience to God and never knowing the true addictive effects of sex but still being able to function. Being born again I actually wish I had never known all the things that I miss.

It was more of a blessing than a curse for those who did go on to believe in God but for those who didn't why should God be held accountable for not making their lives more enjoyable?

Fenny the Fox · May 10, 2015

I am against it, honestly. I see no benefits - outside of decreased sensitivity, and even that doesn't seem to make much of a difference to people. Just saying.

It is a pointless medical procedure with no real benefits inflicted on babies. I still don't know why it is so prevalent.

That said, I am circumcised. It doesn't bother me and I don't care. But I still feel it shouldn't be allowed, frankly.

And I will say I am also against ear piercing as infants/toddlers, etc. I think such things should be entirely by consent.

Desk trauma · May 10, 2015

2ndCovanent said:
All round I would say that it is all symbolic.

If it's symbolic how about people stick to symbolically mutilating their children's genitals, maybe just waving a knife in the air, and stop with the actual cutting?

Kiritsugu Emiyah · May 10, 2015

2ndCovanent said:
All round I would say that it is all symbolic. Allegience to God and never knowing the true addictive effects of sex but still being able to function. Being born again I actually wish I had never known all the things that I miss.

It was more of a blessing than a curse for those who did go on to believe in God but for those who didn't why should God be held accountable for not making their lives more enjoyable?

Sex is good stuff man... imma get mine.

KitKatMatt · May 10, 2015

An infant can't express allegiance to God.

An adult can make that choice.

K9_Trainer · May 10, 2015

According to the CDC, the benefits are primarily hygiene (germs and bacteria build up under foreskin) and reduced chance of contracting HIV.

But if you ask me, those are also easily prevented by teaching the child safe sex practices (like using condoms, not having sex with somebody unless they are tested, not being promiscuous, monogamy/marriage etc.) and how to properly wash his....stuff....daily during a shower or bath, and after sexual activity. I mean, is this not common sense here in the US and UK?

The CDC has to look at the bigger picture because in countries (particularly third world) where HIV is issue and tools for good hygiene are not accessible, circumcision may greatly reduce HIV and other STI related issues, which could save that child's life.

2ndCovanent · May 10, 2015

Well if you look at Sodom and Gomora and how God said he would spare all of them if there was 10 that we found just, I think God will go the extra mile that those just 10 would have been just from the ripe old age of 8 days old.

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