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Circumcision, help please?

Leanna

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So, being the crazy reader I am I have been reading about circumcision. And something I really like about CF is that I can ask and get BOTH sides of the story. There aren't a lot of places like that. So here I am.

First let me say what I don't want.

I don't want to hear, "I circumsized my sons and they are just fine." I don't want to hear, "I didn't circumsize my sons and they are just fine." Those remarks are completely useless to me because I don't care what everyone else is doing.... if everyone jumped off a bridge....

What I would really like is to hear whether there is a real reason to circumsize based on medical or scientific evidence.

Is there a greater risk of infection, UTIs, yeast infections, with circumcision or without, and do you have a link to this information? And what is the chance of needing a circumcision as an older man if you are intact? Is caring for an intact babe in diapers pose risks of infection from, say, poo creeping under the foreskin? Information along those lines would be great.

Thanks for helping as I re-examine this sensitive issue with an open mind.
 

~Nikki~

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I'm glad you've brought this up because dh and I have been discussing the issue as well...

Here in Ireland they *don't* circumcise and the doctors around here seem to see it as barbaric. Also as a rule in England they don't circumcise. In these countries it's only done if it becomes medically necessary, or for Jews and Muslims for religious reasons. And here, there are practically no muslims, and only about 2000 Jewish people (from what I've heard) so it's not common at all. If you're not Jewish and you want to circumcise the doctors are not particularly helpful as they don't agree with it, so *if* we decide to circumcise any sons we'll probably have to go to England and especially ask for it to be done.

So I'm watching this thread with baited breath too...

Sorry I had nothing helpful to add though...
 
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jgonz

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I've heard arguments on both sides that sound completely medically true~ less chance of cancer if circ'd, less chance of STDs, less chance of giving the wife infections after marriage, etc. And then the anti-circ side says the same thing.

For *me & my DH* what was more important was that G-d said that all generations forever were to circumcize their sons. People thought we were sorta nuts to cling to the "Jewish" instructions on this, but it was Really important to us. We figured if G-d made it a point of Covenant for His people, then there Must be a medical reason that we just didn't know about yet (like the Food instructions~ medical science backs up every one of them now). An interesting side note: We just found out (about 3 yrs ago, and our youngest boy is now 6), that it's Highly likely that DH has Jewish blood. Interesting that we were so set on circumcision...
 
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GolfingMom

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The more I read, the more I found that : "Medical grounds for circumcision that are most commonly cited are: Reduced risk of urinary tract infections (UTI); reduced risk of penile cancer; reduced risk of cervical cancer in partners; reduced risk of sexually transmitted disease (STD)."


 
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~Mrs. A2J~

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Here's a great Position Paper from the American Academy Family Physicians Care & Research.


Leanna said:
Is caring for an intact babe in diapers pose risks of infection from, say, poo creeping under the foreskin? Information along those lines would be great.
The foreskin remains attached to the head of the penis until most boys are out of diapers. The foreskin starts to retract usually somewhere between the ages of 3-10 years old. As the foreskin is still attached no poop will get under the foreskin. Under no circumstances should the foreskin be forcibly retracted as that is what causes most problems in uncircumcised males.
 
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Linnis

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From what I've read there very rarely is a medical need to circumsize. In 1975 the American Academy of Pediatrics stated there is no medical need for routine circumcision of the newborn and in 1983 American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists backed them up. They do say there are benefits but not enough to warrent routine circs on a newborn.

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/marcircum.htm

According to my DH the foreskin remains attached until later in childhood and I later learned this after my nephew discovered he could move his last summer.
 
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Leanna

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How about this: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/t012000.asp

"Medical benefits - THERE ARE NONE! Do not circumcise your baby because you think there are some medical benefits. A recent review by the American Academy of Pediatrics looked at all the data from the past decades to see if there truly were any medical benefits. Their conclusion - NO. There are no significant medical benefits that make circumcision worth doing."


I'm not sure which side you're on. Did you read that page? It says "medical grounds commonly cited" not that they are proven. Then the next 4 paragraphs disproves each of these ideas.
 
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katelyn

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Most of the info I've read that is pro-circ is more an emotional plea than statistical reasoning. I've even seen sites that show graphic pictures of what "can" go wrong in an uncircumcised male, yet they don't state any statistics of how likely it actually is to happen.

So far I haven't seen anything that really makes me feel the need to circumcise.
 
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Katydid

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This is from this website:

http://www.circinfo.net/#summary

Lack of circumcision:

• Is responsible for a 12-fold higher risk of urinary tract infections. Risk = 1 in 20.

• Confers a higher risk of death in the first year of life (from complications of urinary tract infections: viz. kidney failure, meningitis and infection of bone marrow).

• One in ~400-900 uncircumcised men will get cancer of the penis. A quarter of these will die from it and the rest will require at least partial penile amputation as a result. (In contrast, invasive penile cancer never occurs or is infinitesimally rare in men circumcised at birth.) (Data from studies in the USA, Denmark and Australia, which are not to be confused with the often quoted, but misleading, annual incidence figures of 1 in 100,000).

• Is associated with balanitis (inflammation of the glans), posthitis (inflammation of the foreskin), phimosis (inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (constriction of the penis by a tight foreskin). Up to 18% of uncircumcised boys will develop one of these by 8 years of age, whereas all are unknown in the circumcised. Risk of balanoposthitis = 1 in 6. Obstruction to urine flow = 1 in 10-50.

• Means increased risk of problems that may necessitate circumcision later in life. Also, the cost can be 10 times higher for an adult.

• Is the biggest risk factor for heterosexually-acquired AIDS virus infection in men. 8-times higher risk by itself, and even higher when lesions from STIs are added in. Risk per exposure = 1 in 300.

• In the female partners of uncircumcised men is associated with higher incidence of cervical cancer, pelvic inflammatory disease, infertility from blockage of fallopian tubes, extopic pregnancy, genital herpes, and other conditions.


Getting circumcised will result in:

• Having to go through a very minor surgical procedure that carries with it small risks.

• Improved hygiene.

• Much lower risk of urinary tract infections.

• Much lower chance of acquiring AIDS heterosexually.

• Virtually complete elimination of the risk of invasive penile cancer.

• More favourable hygiene for the man’s sexual partner.

• More favorable sexual function.

• A penis that is regarded by most as being more attractive.


 
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Entertaining_Angels

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We circumcised for a few reasons. Most importantly, it was my husband's decision and I think fathers should be the ones making the decision...sexist, perhaps but oh well

Part of what went into the decision is that some males on my side were not circumcised and had a lot of physical problems as they got older due to not being circumcised.

Personally could care less who circumcises or does not circumcise their sons just so long as they don't judge others for it. The way I look at it, if God commanded it at one time and tells us in the NT that it doesn't matter one way or the other, it is not barbaric.

And, of course, we circumcised our son and he is just fine
 
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RedTulipMom

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We didnt circumcise either of my sons. I read all the pros and cons and felt that it just isnt medically necessary. My husband isnt as much of a reader as me so he asked the doctor "is it medically necessary?" and the doctor said "no it isnt. Its a choice people make usually depending on if the dad is circumcized or not because they want them to be like daddy". Well my hubby IS circumcised..but he agreed to NOT circumcise since it wasnt medically necessary
 
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Sascha Fitzpatrick

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As a nurse, my experience (anecdotally of course - I haven't been published! ) has been that those who aren't circumcised certainly appear to have a lot more problems in later life.

I know in my urological experience I would see more non-circ'd than circ'd in my regular day - of a ration of about 10 uncirc'd to 1 circ'd.

I'm not sure if this really helps you Leanna, but after what I've seen day to day in theatres courtesy of people not circumcising, I am going to circumcise my children.

My husband wants them circumcised, but that is to do with him being done as well, rather than anything 'medical'... he left the medical stuff up to me!

I did a lot of book study as well before making my mind up (I was still in the 'circumcised' sides of things after reading texts and what not), however it was more my own personal experience of nursing in urology theatres and wards that sealed it for me.

Sorry if this is no help at all!

Sasch
 
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Athene

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What are the ratios of non-circ'd men to circ'd men in the general population, it's important to know that otherwise it's impossible to correctly determine whether or not non-circ'd men are more prone to health risks, it could well be that the reason why more non-circ'd men go to hospital is that there are more non-circ'd men.
 
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Athene

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Leanna said:
What I would really like is to hear whether there is a real reason to circumsize based on medical or scientific evidence.

No there isn't, curcumcision became popular during the Victorian Era as a means to prevent masturbation, (female circumcision was also carried out for this reason). Male circ decreases the sensitivity of the penis because it thickens the skin at the end of the penis.

If you can access these journals I'd recommend you read them.

Male circumcision: a review of the evidence. The Journal of Men's Health and Gender. Vol 2, Issue 1, March 2005 pages 21-30

Circumcision in adulsts: effect on sexual funtion. Urology. Vol 63, Issue 1, Jan 2004, 155-158

An evidence-based approach to male circumcision: what do we know? Journal of Midwifery and womens Health. Vol 46, Issue 6, Nov-Dec 2001 p 415-422

Thre are slight health benefits attached to having a boys foreskin removed, and by slight I mean the slightest of slight benefits. IMO the decision of whether to circumsize or not to circumsize is more of an ethical question. Do you have a right to circumsize your child? A circumcision is a non-essential operation which will change a childs body, effect their sexual response, and the chances of complications arising from the procedure are around 2-10%.
 
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