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Church & State (A little U.S. history)

Stewartnz

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The American founding fathers set up a government divorced from religion. This does not mean that those men were irreligious, far from it -- it was entirely on account of their respect for “pure religion” that they separated the church from the State.

As the United States began entering into international affairs, foreign nations did not know what the intentions of the U.S. actually were. An excerpt from a U.S. treaty with a foreign country (drawn up during 1796-97) shows the secular nature of the U.S. government. The treaty effectively assured the outside world that the America was not, in any sense, a Christian theocracy, and that it would not act from a religious basis.

Officially, the treaty was called the "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary." It is commonly called the Treaty of Tripoli.

Article 11 of the Treaty said:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen [i.e. Muslims]; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

The preliminary treaty began with a signing on 4 November, 1796 (4 months before George Washington's last term as President ended). Joel Barlow, an American diplomat serving as counsel to Algiers, was responsible for the treaty negotiations. Barlow had once served under Washington as a chaplain in the revolutionary army, he was also an associate of Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson (both “founding fathers” of American government).

The treaty was forwarded to U.S. legislators for approval in 1797. Timothy Pickering, the Secretary of State, endorsed it, and John Adams concurred (now during his presidency), sending the document on to the Senate.

The Senate approved the Treaty on June 7, 1797, and it was officially ratified by the Senate, with John Adams signature, on 10 June, 1797. During the entire process, the wording of Article 11 never raised the slightest concern. The treaty even became public through its publication in The Philadelphia Gazette on 17 June 1797. No protest was raised.

So here we have a clear statement, made by the United States in 1797, that its government did not found itself upon Christianity. Unlike the Declaration of Independence, this treaty represented U.S. law, as all U.S. Treaties do. (See the Constitution, Article VI, Sect.2: "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."

Although the Treaty of Tripoli no longer has legal status, and it was in effect for only about 8 years, it represented the feelings of the American Founding Fathers at the beginning of the American government.

__________________

Based on Charles I. Bevans book, "Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America 1776-1949," Vol. II


 
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Joe67

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While America wasn't founded specifically as a "Christian nation" it WAS a nation of Chrsitians based on Christian principles. Principles that state that all men are created equal with unalienable rights, such as the right to choose, granted by that Creator.
ricker,

The thought that all men are created equal with unalienable rights, such as the right to choose, is a Greek teaching concerning the Creator.

Joe
 
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Stewartnz

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While America wasn't founded specifically as a "Christian nation" it WAS a nation of Chrsitians based on Christian principles. Principles that state that all men are created equal with unalienable rights, such as the right to choose, granted by that Creator.

To a certain extent I must agree with what you say, and I think my first 2 or 3 sentences expressed that.

But the original colonies were not exactly operating on Christian principles, were they? There are many examples of religious persecution in those colonies.

John Cotton, of Massachusetts Bay Colony insisted that "persecution is not wrong in itself; it is wicked for falsehood to persecute truth, but it is the sacred duty of truth to persecute falsehood." (Beginnings of New England p.178, John Fiske)

And so, persecute they did.

The idea that it was wrong for "them" to persecute us, but our duty to persecute them, was commonly employed in the colonies. The framers of the Constitution understood the dangers that were then present.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Stewartnz said:
The idea that it was wrong for "them" to persecute us, but our duty to persecute them, was commonly employed in the colonies. The framers of the Constitution understood the dangers that were then present.

"Them" and "us" varied from colony to colony. You had Puritan New England, the Anglican South, Quaker Pennsylvania, Catholic Maryland, Baptist Rhode Island etc. Colonial America had numerous mutually antagonistic religious persuasions. There was a practical consideration in regards to religious freedom. Without it, any union between the American colonies simply would not have been possible.

Similarly, the 1707 Act of Union between England and Scotland would have been far more difficult had England not granted toleration to non-conformists. The Peace of Augsburg paved the way toward a unified Germany.
 
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Stewartnz

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"Them" and "us" varied from colony to colony. You had Puritan New England, the Anglican South, Quaker Pennsylvania, Catholic Maryland, Baptist Rhode Island etc. Colonial America had numerous mutually antagonistic religious persuasions. There was a practical consideration in regards to religious freedom. Without it, any union between the American colonies simply would not have been possible.

Similarly, the 1707 Act of Union between England and Scotland would have been far more difficult had England not granted toleration to non-conformists. The Peace of Augsburg paved the way toward a unified Germany.

Thank you Soldier Of The King.

I accept that religious liberty varied from colony to colony. But religious laws were common enough to be a problem, even after the Constitution was written, and George Washington had entered the Presidency.

There is a striking account given about George Washington traveling through part of Connecticut on his way to attend church somewhere in New York State.

As he was traveling on Sunday he was stopped by a "tithingman", who asked him, "What license have you to travel upon the Lord's Day?"

Washington "promised to go no further than the town intended", and the official permitted him to proceed on his journey. This took place in 1789.
 
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ricker

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ricker,

The thought that all men are created equal with unalienable rights, such as the right to choose, is a Greek teaching concerning the Creator.

Joe

Sounds like you are perhaps Calvanist when it comes to election of the saints.
 
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