Church Growth

[bling]

A question can up among us about church growth, with the comment being made: “there are many ways to grow a church”.

I do think there are many ways churches have grown, but is there really only one right way to grow?

Is there even a way to reach 8 billion people with the gospel and should that even be our goal with our growth?

We can see with organic growth, like we witness with the Covid-19 virus, everyone could be reached with exponential growth, but do any of you feel organic growth of Christianity is even possible?

The thing is: organic type growth is what I see Jesus method of teaching others presented by Him and the way the church grew early on. There are some big differences in the first century that helped the growth along especially prior to the destruction of Jerusalem and even with the destruction of Jerusalem, that we will not see, but underpinning those circumstances was the continuous training of the members to become real disciples.

Converts were developed to be like their teachers who were like Christ and thus when out teaching others to be like they were which was like Christ and so on. Sometime persecution help them with their going out to other places and persecution, lack of buildings, lack of centralization and lack of money help them use this method as the only alternative.

I, from the USA with limited contact with China unregistered Churches and only teach Chinese students in the USA, see this organic method of church growth happening in China right now. Lack of buildings, persecution, lack of money, lack of “religious books” other than the Bible, lack of large congregations and lack of Christian schools; all seems to help with the organic growth, I see.

Questions:

1. Is Christian organic growth today even possible?

2. Do we today have better way to grow Christianity and if not, why are we not using Christ’s method?

3. What would it take for us to implement organic growth in the USA?

 

[Oldmantook]

It is possible but improbable as change in the direction you propose would require those in leadership to give up their hierarchical authority, status and monies.​

 

[Hammster]

Jesus grows His church.

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Jesus grows His church.

This. I'd also add my conviction that God is more concerned with vertical growth than He is with seeing pews filled with people going in and out the doors without changing.
And for this I think discipleship is key.

 

[Olmhinlu]

Whether I believe God's will or human repentance is the prime mover in salvation, ought I not remember that I can ultimately control neither? Can we 'save' anyone? Can we do anything more than be a faithful witness and testify to what God has done? Isn't it written that if

"you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul"?

 

[splish- splash]

Could you please define "Christian organic growth"

 

[bling]

Whether I believe God's will or human repentance is the prime mover in salvation, ought I not remember that I can ultimately control neither? Can we 'save' anyone? Can we do anything more than be a faithful witness and testify to what God has done? Isn't it written that if

"you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul"?

Is it both a privilege and honor to allow God to work through you to present the living Christ to others? I fully agree we do not "save" anyone, but can we present Christ to people so they can make a clear choice to accept or reject God's charity?
I am really not addressing conversion here, but our involvement in the making of a disciple (a Christ like person). Is that all between the person and Christ or can Christ work through us if we allow Him?

 

[bling]

It is possible but improbable as change in the direction you propose would require those in leadership to give up their hierarchical authority, status and monies.​

Do we have to become like the unregistered church in China?
What if we let the hierarchical churches remain and just work around them?

 

[Olmhinlu]

Is it both a privilege and honor to allow God to work through you to present the living Christ to others? I fully agree we do not "save" anyone, but can we present Christ to people so they can make a clear choice to accept or reject God's charity?

I believe so. *

* that is to say, I believe we can make a presentation.

I am really not addressing conversion here, but our involvement in the making of a disciple (a Christ like person). Is that all between the person and Christ or can Christ work through us if we allow Him?

Yes, I believe that discipleship is the Biblical pattern.

A couple of other ideas I don't know how to fit in right now:

• I wonder if [mathematically?] it'd be easier to have explosive growth in the beginning of an organisation's life than it would be later I.e. it might be easier to double when you have 2 members than when you have 2000 or 2 million etc.
• In light of Jesus saying that a "prophet is not without honor, except in his hometown and among his relatives and in his own household", I wonder if the West has been the 'household' of Christianity in the last few centuries, and if the West has perhaps become just a little too familiar with Christianity/ has come to regard Jesus very lightly.

 

[Hammster]

I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
— Matthew 16:18

 

[bling]

I believe so. *

* that is to say, I believe we can make a presentation.



Yes, I believe that discipleship is the Biblical pattern.

A couple of other ideas I don't know how to fit in right now:

• I wonder if [mathematically?] it'd be easier to have explosive growth in the beginning of an organisation's life than it would be later I.e. it might be easier to double when you have 2 members than when you have 2000 or 2 million etc.
• In light of Jesus saying that a "prophet is not without honor, except in his hometown and among his relatives and in his own household", I wonder if the West has been the 'household' of Christianity in the last few centuries, and if the West has perhaps become just a little too familiar with Christianity/ has come to regard Jesus very lightly.

We might be talking about two different events. "Converts" can be in the thousands, but that is the back drop to making disciples. The small group around the mentor is where Christ is working making disciples if they are being made at all.
We can get so excited and enthusiastic about converts we take all our time and energy trying to have Christ work through us making converts. The problem is: being that Christ to the "12" around us and having Him make them like you are (which is like Christ) is much more important and needs to be your emphasis. This takes a longer time and 100 converts might be made in the time needed for one disciple, so where do we want to spend the time and where did Jesus spend His time?

 

[Oldmantook]

Do we have to become like the unregistered church in China?
What if we let the hierarchical churches remain and just work around them?

There always be a small remnant who truly follow. It appears that Jesus wasn't interested in numbers. Huge crowds initially came to hear and see him teach. They followed him until he purposely said things that made it too difficult for them to follow/obey Him. Jesus winnowed the crowds. The gospel message as proclaimed today is not interested in making committed disciples but instead is a numbers game. What matters the most is church attendance coupled with easy-believism. Persecution weeds them out - which is why the underground church in China is said to flourish. Persecution and the blood of the martyrs grows the church - something that the church in America has yet to experience.

 

[1213]

...
3. What would it take for us to implement organic growth in the USA?

I think one important thing would be to return to the teachings Jesus had, act and speak like Jesus and his disciples. I think the problem with modern Churches is that the leaders have become hypocrites that are more interested about the outside than inside. Rituals and human doctrines have become more important than what Jesus told.