Christians: How do you reconcile the problem of evil?

[Akureyri]

As it is logically impossible for an all-loving (or all-good) and all-powerful God to exist in the presence of mass suffering or mass calamity, how do you reconcile this?

Do you change your construct of God such that he either isn't all-loving or all-powerful?

OR

Do you just not think about it?

 

[Joshua260]

As it is logically impossible for an all-loving (or all-good) and all-powerful God to exist in the presence of mass suffering or mass calamity, how do you reconcile this?

Do you change your construct of God such that he either isn't all-loving or all-powerful?

OR

Do you just not think about it?

I'm glad you're posting this again because I never got to respond to your Epicurean argument before the last thread was closed. I find that the Epicurean argument fails miserably because as others have pointed out, it simply fails to take into account that God may have reasons (unknown to his creation) for allowing evil to exist. That argument can only succeed if the one making it is himself omniscient. Therefore I reject your assertion that the co-existence of an all-loving/all-powerful God and evil (or mass suffering or mass calamity) is logically impossible. You simply cannot know that.

 

[Akureyri]

I'm glad you're posting this again because I never got to respond to your Epicurean argument before the last thread was closed. I find that the Epicurean argument fails miserably because as others have pointed out, it simply fails to take into account that God may have reasons (unknown to his creation) for allowing evil to exist. That argument can only succeed if the one making it is himself omniscient. Therefore I reject your assertion that the co-existence of an all-loving/all-powerful God and evil (or mass suffering or mass calamity) is logically impossible. You simply cannot know that.

So you're saying God has some other reason to allow evil to exist. It would then follow that if he were to stop the rapist from raping the child, then he wouldn't be able to accomplish whatever this other reason entails. Therefore, somehow the stopping of the rape takes away from God's omnipotence. And if God is outside of time, then any assertion that he can do anything would mean he can always do anything. This would mean if God did stop the rapist from raping the child, it couldn't diminish his omnipotence - which would mean he could still accomplish whatever his other reason entails.

So it leaves the question unanswered: why doesn't God stop the rapist from raping the child?

 

[Hetta]

I believe it is about free will, that we are all born equal and able to take a path of good, but some do not. Why would God intervene in that? To intervene would make him a despot - a Stalin or a Chairman Mao. I don't want God to control my life and make my decisions for me. That's not what being a Christian is about (imo). I always have that choice - good or evil - every single day. As does every single human being.

 

[Akureyri]

I believe it is about free will, that we are all born equal and able to take a path of good, but some do not. Why would God intervene in that? To intervene would make him a despot - a Stalin or a Chairman Mao. I don't want God to control my life and make my decisions for me. That's not what being a Christian is about (imo). I always have that choice - good or evil - every single day. As does every single human being.

If God can do anything, he wouldn't have to mess with a rapists free will to stop the rapist from raping the child.

 

[Joshua260]

...It would then follow that if he were to stop the rapist from raping the child, then he wouldn't be able to accomplish whatever this other reason entails. Therefore, somehow the stopping of the rape takes away from God's omnipotence...

I think you're logic fails to take into account that what God may really want to do is to teach people how to learn how to be courageous, be sympathetic, be prayerful, love, etc. If nothing bad ever happens to people, how are we ever going to grow into the mature faithfully strong Christians God wants us to be? Without evil in the world, how would we have ever learned from heroes like Martin-Luther King, Lincoln, Washington, Patrick Henry, as well as the heroes of the Christian faith talked about in Hebrews 11? I think this is kind of what C. S. Lewis meant when he said "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief".

 

[Joshua260]

If God can do anything, he wouldn't have to mess with a rapists free will to stop the rapist from raping the child.

So you're arguing that God should make us freely only do good things?

 

[Hetta]

If God can do anything, he wouldn't have to mess with a rapists free will to stop the rapist from raping the child.

Of course He would. Do you know what free will is? If I decide to walk in front of traffic, why would God stop me? The whole concept of God making man was that He made them with free will to go out and do as they choose. I'm sure you know enough of the Bible to know that murder started pretty early (Cain and Abel). Did God stop that? No. Did He stop Adam and Eve from eating from the tree in the first place? No. Our history of humankind is that we will do as we please. God didn't make puppets. He just gave us a manual (the Bible) to follow if we so chose.

Which is not to say that non-Christians commit all the crimes, evidently not. Plenty of people claim Christianity and still commit evil acts. But that's choice.

I'd love for God to stop rapists from raping and murderers from murdering, but then what next? Will He stop adulterers from having sex? Thieves from thieving? Then what point in having a Bible, because He will make us all perfect anyway.

Do I make sense? I'm not asking if you agree with me, just whether I'm making sense.

 

[pyramid33]

Christians: How do you reconcile the problem of evil?

Rec·on·cile
verb
Restore friendly relations between.

It is written, whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4

1 Peter 3:11
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

 

[pyramid33]

If God can do anything, he wouldn't have to mess with a rapists free will to stop the rapist from raping the child.

God allows unbeliever's in God to not believe in God.


All that believe in God aren't of the evil.

 

[pyramid33]

So you're saying God has some other reason to allow evil to exist. It would then follow that if he were to stop the rapist from raping the child, then he wouldn't be able to accomplish whatever this other reason entails. Therefore, somehow the stopping of the rape takes away from God's omnipotence. And if God is outside of time, then any assertion that he can do anything would mean he can always do anything. This would mean if God did stop the rapist from raping the child, it couldn't diminish his omnipotence - which would mean he could still accomplish whatever his other reason entails.

So it leaves the question unanswered: why doesn't God stop the rapist from raping the child?

Only the one's that reject God are capable of such evil.

 

[prov1810]

If God wanted to prevent us from sinning it would totally shut us down. We probably don't do anything with complete moral purity. But we can be morally improved if we willingly submit to God. God determined that this is better than destroying our wills and turning us into puppets.

 

[Akureyri]

Only the one's that reject God are capable of such evil.

So only theists are capable of such evil and atheists aren't? One can't reject something they don't believe to exist.

 

[Akureyri]

If God wanted to prevent us from sinning it would totally shut us down. We probably don't do anything with complete moral purity. But we can be morally improved if we willingly submit to God. God determined that this is better than destroying our wills and turning us into puppets.

If God can do anything, then he can stop a rapist from raping a child without messing with the free will of the rapist.

 

[Akureyri]

Of course He would. Do you know what free will is? If I decide to walk in front of traffic, why would God stop me? The whole concept of God making man was that He made them with free will to go out and do as they choose. I'm sure you know enough of the Bible to know that murder started pretty early (Cain and Abel). Did God stop that? No. Did He stop Adam and Eve from eating from the tree in the first place? No. Our history of humankind is that we will do as we please. God didn't make puppets. He just gave us a manual (the Bible) to follow if we so chose.

Which is not to say that non-Christians commit all the crimes, evidently not. Plenty of people claim Christianity and still commit evil acts. But that's choice.

I'd love for God to stop rapists from raping and murderers from murdering, but then what next? Will He stop adulterers from having sex? Thieves from thieving? Then what point in having a Bible, because He will make us all perfect anyway.

Do I make sense? I'm not asking if you agree with me, just whether I'm making sense.

No you don't make sense. If God can do anything, then he can stop the rapist from raping the child without messing with the free will of the rapist. Example: while the rapist is on his way to rape the child, God causes a tree to fall down and block the route of the rapist to get to the child.

 

[Hetta]

So only theists are capable of such evil and atheists aren't? One can't reject something they don't believe to exist.

Some Christians like to push away the evil done by their own as "they weren't really Christians." In fact, if all of those people who committed a sin weren't actually Christians, there would be no Christians. Zero.

The reality is that we are all capable of committing terrible acts. Some, for whatever reason, indulge themselves in their desires. Others do not. There is no clear divide where theists do and non-theists don't. It doesn't exist.

 

[Hetta]

No you don't make sense. If God can do anything, then he can stop the rapist from raping the child without messing with the free will of the rapist. Example: while the rapist is on his way to rape the child, God causes a tree to fall down and block the route of the rapist to get to the child.

I don't think there's any point in me continuing to post after this because I would only keep on saying the same things and you would only keep on saying the same things.

It doesn't matter if God makes a tree to fall or stops a car engine from running, he's still interfering with free will.

 

[prov1810]

If God can do anything, then he can stop a rapist from raping a child without messing with the free will of the rapist.

If God is going to restrict our activity to the point of preventing all harm, we would all be in chains with gags in our mouths. He is allowing human life to function.

 

[Akureyri]

I don't think there's any point in me continuing to post after this because I would only keep on saying the same things and you would only keep on saying the same things.

It doesn't matter if God makes a tree to fall or stops a car engine from running, he's still interfering with free will.

So free will entails the ability to do things - not just the ability to decide to do things. Correct?

For example, if you decide to exercise your free will to go to the rodeo and I stop you by forcing your car off the road into a ditch, then I have messed with your free will. Right?

 

[Akureyri]

If God is going to restrict our activity to the point of preventing all harm, we would all be in chains with gags in our mouths. He is allowing human life to function.

If God can do anything, then he could prevent the chains and gags from existing.