Christians appearing to be unreasonable?

"Within the evangelical world, tensions have emerged between those who deny secular knowledge and those who have kept up with it and integrated it with their faith."

Kept up with physically obtained knowledge from which scientific community? ID or Darwinian? Other?

Papias said:

..Thoughts?

Papias

Click to expand...

Thoughts? About the New York Slimes?

That would be less ironic if any disciplined thought went into their editorials.

The article is just a political hit-piece, it's not an actual discussion of the issues. The word evolution encompasses such a broad spectrum of issues that saying someone does or doesn't believe in evolution is almost meaningless because everyone is using a different definition of the world. I wouldn't call myself an evolutionist, but I'm almost about anti-YEC as one can be, both scientifically and theologically. Newspapers simply like to use buzz words to assassinate candidates. They won't say that Michelle Bachmann believes that homosexuality is a health risk, both physical an mental, to the people who involved or fall victim to such behavior and she wants to help them. Instead, they just call her a bigot to avoid discussion of the issue, and they do the same thing with evolution.

Hi Papias,

You wrote: Here is an example of how Origins Theology, and specifically the denial of evolution, is continuing to make Christianity look silly...

Isn't that exactly what Paul said, the gospel seems as foolishness to those who are perishing?

Quite honestly I'm pretty Ok with men thinking that accepting the Scriptures as literal is silly. After all, it isn't their approval that I seek. The whole part about following Christ is that we have a different worldview. We don't share the basic, majority accepted view or understanding of things. We believe God's claims. God said He made the heavens and the earth in six days. He even further defined each day as a evening and a morning just as we define a day today. Huh? Go figure!

Now, that I don't accept the generally accepted 'scientific' theory of how the world and the universe and mankind came into being, I believe, is exactly what God expects of us. I'm here to praise, honor, glorify and believe God, not man or any of his wisdom. Does the world say that's silly? Well, sure they do and it's what we've been warned to expect. Jesus said that when one chooses to follow him, his enemies will be members of his own family. Does that sound like he expected us to be in agreement with even our own families about the how and why of our existence? Come on man, think! Read the word, treasure it in your heart and don't worry about looking foolish to the world. It isn't who you're here to please.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

And come on, man. Do you really expect the New York times or any of it's editors to be able to discern the truth of God? You're looking at lost and perishing people trying to discern the mysteries of God. That, my friend, is silly.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Hi pap,

You responded: So do you believe the sun goes around the earth? If not, then are you not doing exactly what you say we shouldn't be doing in your post?

You know that's really the silliest, most tired and trite worthless argument that unbelievers always use to deny the truth of God's word.

You also responded: Do you think your quote above sounds like passing judgement, saying that those Christians, who do so much in the cause of Christ, are "lost and perishing"?

Here's what Jesus said about many who profess of themselves to be born again believers. Many will say to me on that day,http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-19 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-20

Now, by their own proclamation that the things they did were in Jesus' name, I think it safe to say that these people that the Lord is explaining to his disciples about walked upon the earth proclaiming themselves believers. So, no, I don't accept the testimony of a man as to his spiritual condition unless his faith is firmly supported by the word of God.

God's word says He created this entire realm of existence in 6 days and because He is all wise and knows the wicked hearts of men and that 2,000 years after His Sons death and resurrection men would be arguing the 'length' of those days, He further defined each day as an evening and a morning. Then He follows up from Adam with a complete list of his generations and their years of life. Trust me, friend, He didn't put that in there as filler to make the book seem bigger and we'd be able to charge more for it in the store. God desires that His children, those who are born again of His Spirit, know the truth and He has given it to us.

I'm all for being exactly what God's word says I'll be here on this earth: foolish to the perishing. Listen, you seem to be one who thinks that if we christians would just be more sensible and adopt the wisdom of man along with the wisdom of God, where it might be applied, we will somehow not look so foolish. Friend, since the days that Jesus ascended into heaven, christianity has always, always, always, always created angst and disagreement between the children of God and the children of Satan. Why do you think that Jesus warned his disciples that when we come to faith in him our enemies will be those of our own household. Do you really think this statement was made for us to understand that we should adopt their teaching and understanding. Sorry, but it clearly says to me that I'm not going to be in agreement with the world about the things of God. And because of that steadfast disagreement I'm going to be hated, persecuted, mocked, laughed at and called foolish by those who are perishing. It seems a perfectly clear fact of our walk of faith especially when you then read that Jesus also said, "Remember when they hate you, they hated me first."

Friend, my goal is not to make the truth of God more palatable to the world. My goal is to believe God. And God has firmly convicted me that there is a reason He didn't just say, "And so there was the first day," but rather, "And so there was evening and morning the first day."

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

"You know that's really the silliest, most tired and trite worthless argument that unbelievers always use to deny the truth of God's word."

If you can't refute the electric universe, say their literature [secretly] means the big bang. You'll probably get the same response quoted above.

Papias said:

So do you believe the sun goes around the earth? If not, then are you not doing exactly what you say we shouldn't be doing in your post?

Click to expand...

Do you take the big bang literature literally? Geocentricism was derived from a literal reading of physical science literature.

Hi lbp,

You responed: No one, including Ted, I'm sure, really takes the entire Bible literally

Then you'd be surely incorrect.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

miamited said:

Hi lbp,

You responed: No one, including Ted, I'm sure, really takes the entire Bible literally

Then you'd be surely incorrect.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Click to expand...

Ted, my man, if this is true, then you need to add to our 38,000 current denominations by establishing the Church of Ted - because you are the only person on the planet who really does.

miamited said:

Hi lbp,

You responed: No one, including Ted, I'm sure, really takes the entire Bible literally

Then you'd be surely incorrect.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Click to expand...

So you believe Jesus advocated cannibalism? Maybe that's why his body went missing, the disciples ate it.

John 6:54 (NASB) [54] He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Click to expand...

Hi LBP,

Actually, I think if you really look you'll find that there has always been a remnant of those who believe the word of God to the letter. Remember also these two things. The road to condemnation is broad and wide and many travel it, but the road to eternal life is straight and narrow and few there be that find it.

Secondly, and I hope that you will carefully consider this one and maybe even take a stab at answering my following question. On that day many will say to me Lord, Lord did we not drive out demons in your name and perform mighty miracles in your name. I will turn to them and say, "I never knew you. Depart from me you who are accursed."

Now, let's make sure we understand this short example that Jesus spoke of. These people that come to him address him as Lord and claim that they have done mighty things in his name. I think anyone who would carefully read this would admit that these people seem to be one's who would have called themselves christians when they lived on the earth. Yet, on the day of judgment Jesus clearly tells them that he never knew them. Now, what if Jesus believed, actually he knows, that God's word regarding the creation account is just exactly as He had it written by His Holy Spirit? Do you think Jesus would find them faithful if, while they lived this life they spent much of their energies denying such a thing as ludicrious? If the Holy Spirit caused the Scripturs to be written and they do portray the exact truth of the creation, is a person who denies that truth led by the Holy Spirit. Wouldn't that make the Holy Spirit a liar if he confirms in you something different than he caused to be written in the Scriptures?

Just something to think about. What would be the reason that a self-professed believer would not agree with the truth or believe something different than the truth? Didn't Jesus say that the job of the Holy Spirit was to lead us into all truth? Why then, do you and I believe something different if we are led by the same Spirit? Could those faithful christians that cry out to the Lord on that day of judgment, even though they did such powerful things in the Lord's name, be unknown unto him because they refused to believe the truth. Even though they walked around telling everyone, "I'm a christian. I know the Lord." The issue at judgment isn't really about whether you know the Lord, but whether the Lord knows you. The Revelation of our Lord makes it clear that on that day of judgment the ones who will be saved are those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. So, it seems clear to me that it really isn't about all our knowledge and self-proclaimed relationship with the Lord, but rather the Lord's relationship with us.

Just some things to think over. If God did create the heavens and the earth in six literal days and just so you wouldn't misunderstand had the Spirit cause to be written for each day that there was evening and there was morning, and you refuse to believe it...Does God see you as faithful. Will Jesus write your name in the Lamb's Book of Life? For you and I there is obviously a difference in what we believe is the truth of the creation. One of us, therefore, does not have the Spirit of truth confirming what the reality of the creation was.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Hi Pap,

You responded:

1. The holy spirit leads us to all truth.
2. There is only one truth.
3. So if there is a disagreement, some people must be being led by the Holy Spirit, the others are not.
4. Those who aren't being led by the Holy Spirit therefore must be destined to Hell.

That certainly seems to be the correct reading of the Scriptures. John 16:13

As far as disagreements, sure mature christians can have disagreements, although both Jesus and Paul said it should no be so.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Btw, Paul even confirms that the reason there are disagreements is that it does show that some do not have God's approval.

In the following directives I have no praise for you,http://www.biblestudytools.com/1-corinthians/11.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-17 for your meetings do more harm than good. In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisionshttp://www.biblestudytools.com/1-corinthians/11.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18 among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

miamited said:

Btw, Paul even confirms that the reason there are disagreements is that it does show that some do not have God's approval.

In the following directives I have no praise for you,http://www.biblestudytools.com/1-corinthians/11.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-17 for your meetings do more harm than good. In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisionshttp://www.biblestudytools.com/1-corinthians/11.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18 among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Click to expand...

I wonder if this was a tongue in cheek remark. Most of this letter strongly condemns factionalism. In that context, this seems a note of sarcasm and a warning that divisions are a sign of pride. "We are approved; those others who differ from us are not." This is an attitude Paul is condemning.

is it bad for Christians to appear silly to the world?