Christians and spanking?

conorsdad · Oct 16, 2006

Hi, my name is Pat and I have been a Christian since exactly 11/17/2005. I attended a very active, contemporary-worship, non-denominational church from 11/2005 until about exactly 2 months ago. I have not strayed from my faith in the Lord, but I have some personal issues that keep me skeptical of organized religion. After church, I would usually stop by the church library...I would take out some Veggie Tales books or DVD's for my 4 year old son, and I was reading the Left Behind series, and would take those out from the library. I was looking through the parenting section once day, and saw that they had Roy Lessin's book titled "Spanking" there. I do not spank my child. I do not think there is ever an excuse to strike a child. Discipline, yes. Hitting, no. Lessin's book is horrible. I know of people like James Dobson and his stance on spanking, but Lessin makes Dobson look like Captain Kangaroo. It sent me into a tizzy, and I haven't attended since because of the church carrying this book....I assume that by having this book in their library, they condone what is written in it.Any advice from anyone?BTW, a great Christian parenting book that I have read is Dr. Tim Kimmel's "Grace-Based Parenting."Thanks!Pat

JulySheMustFly · Oct 16, 2006

Even Christians have different views on spanking. Some do it others don't and even others yet straddle the middle somewhere.
Did the church carry other books that were more grace-based in their guidance too?

conorsdad · Oct 16, 2006

Actually, I didn't really notice. They did carry some Dobson books, which, even though I don;t agree with all of Dobson's parenting methods, there is still a lot of other issues on which I agree with Dobson, and at least Dobson states that spanking is not necessarily for every child. Lessin, on the other hand, is downright torturous....evcen advocating striking infants. Its no wonder that when you look up Lessin's book on amazon, it lists other books bought by people who viewed that book, and both listed are S&M sexual spanking fetish books.This is an issue that confuses me about the church, since it seems it is widely held that spanking is commanded in the Bible. When, through much study and prayer, the only thing I see commanded in the Bible is discipline...which means to teach and guide.

Heart4Him · Oct 16, 2006

During the time that you were at your church were you able to establish a relationship with your pastor at all?
This is an issue that can vary with Christians...
I would recommend at least going and speaking to your pastor(s) and sharing your concerns about the book and the issue of spanking.
We will never all agree 100% on all issues, even biblically, but it might help to talk to someone about it if you haven't already.
Do you feel like it's the Lord's will for you to have left your church?

conorsdad · Oct 16, 2006

>>Do you feel like it's the Lord's will for you to have left your church?>>Not necessarily. I miss going, actually. There was never anything taught out in the open at church that disagreed with, and I even attended a small group and a men's Bible study for a while. My son attended the preschool kids' church and liked it, there were never any problems.Since I stopped going to church, I have started seeing some old bad habits of mine creeping back, and haven't been picking up my Bible as much as I should be.

Heart4Him · Oct 16, 2006

conorsdad said:
>>Do you feel like it's the Lord's will for you to have left your church?>>Not necessarily. I miss going, actually. There was never anything taught out in the open at church that disagreed with, and I even attended a small group and a men's Bible study for a while. My son attended the preschool kids' church and liked it, there were never any problems.Since I stopped going to church, I have started seeing some old bad habits of mine creeping back, and haven't been picking up my Bible as much as I should be.

I would go back then, if I were you...I'm not you
but...it is easy to get out of the Lord's will or for satan to try to distract us and get us off track.

If you have never had any problems with the doctrine that is taught and you feel that the Word of God is being taught and preached, that's the most important thing.

I do understand from experience how easy it is to get hurt (spiritually) in church, but if this is where God has placed you and your son, you should stick it out unless He moves you somewhere else.

No offense meant at all, but this seems like a small issue in the big scheme of things. There are things that cause people to leave a church and then there are things that can and should be talked about, reasoned, and worked out or even agreeing to disagree (because not all issues are as clear-cut in the Bible as others, and we are all human).

I'll be praying for you, brother..I truly hope that you will talk to your pastor about it and get back in there, and keep sending your little guy to the preschool class, and continue being a part of your congregation.

Beth1231 · Oct 16, 2006

Most of the mom's on this board associate the word "spanking" with a few light to moderate swats on the bum. Roy Lessin's book teaches a parent how to torture their child physically, emotionally and spiritually. I have never read it and never will. The testimonies of adults who endured his practices are enough for me.

For those of you who aren't familiar with his book, it is horribly detailed in how to make your child strip for his punishment, beat them unmercifully with a rod or belt and then if they cry too much, to beat them again to teach them not to rebel. I mean, it is really sick.

Heart4Him · Oct 16, 2006

Beth1231 said:
Most of the mom's on this board associate the word "spanking" with a few light to moderate swats on the bum. Roy Lessin's book teaches a parent how to torture their child physically, emotionally and spiritually. I have never read it and never will. The testimonies of adults who endured his practices are enough for me.

For those of you who aren't familiar with his book, it is horribly detailed in how to make your child strip for his punishment, beat them unmercifully with a rod or belt and then if they cry too much, to beat them again to teach them not to rebel. I mean, it is really sick.

I'm not familiar with this book at all...it does sound quite extreme.
To conorsdad..it could be possible that the leadership or pastor(s) don't even know that this book is in their church library, or may not even be familiar with the book, either..like myself. It's worth talking to them about...

Beth1231 · Oct 16, 2006

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/RoyLessinOpenLetter.html

I must warn you. The above is terribly horribly sad and disturbing. It's a letter written to Roy Lessin from a young woman who was terribly scarred from the practices he taught her parents. This is NOT what "spanking" is to the huge majority of Christian parents.

JulySheMustFly · Oct 16, 2006

Okay, really had no idea about the real severity of this guys ideas. Do you think the church was aware of the stance this book took or was it a quick purchase. Definately mention it to the pastor or who ever decides to purchase books for the library. It very well could be unknown or something else missed or misunderstood inocently. I understand about the rough patches with churches. If this is where the church stands I'd leave but it just seems maybe accidental. I'd have no idea how extreme Lessin's idea were by just reading the blurb on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Spanking-Why-..._bbs_sr_1/002-4196784-6886467?ie=UTF8&s=books

lucypevensie · Oct 16, 2006

I say, don't judge a church by one book in its library.

Like the others have said, it's possible that it was just a careless donation/purchase, and whoever works in the library assumed it was an OK book. Find out who is in charge of the library and voice your concern. I've not heard of that one, but from the descriptions it sounds like a bad one

~~~

Many good Bible-believing Christians disagree on the subject of spanking, and it is possible to carry on a civil relationship with someone who happens to disagree with you on the topic. Just the same way that some people cannot fathom why anyone would spank their child, others are baffled by those who think it is horrific. It is a good thing we only have to answer to God for the way we raise our children, because if we were subject to the judgement of people, I'd have been stoned to death long ago.

oliveplants · Oct 16, 2006

lucypevensie said:
I say, don't judge a church by one book in its library.

Like the others have said, it's possible that it was just a careless donation/purchase, and whoever works in the library assumed it was an OK book. Find out who is in charge of the library and voice your concern. I've not heard of that one, but from the descriptions it sounds like a bad one

~~~

Many good Bible-believing Christians disagree on the subject of spanking, and it is possible to carry on a civil relationship with someone who happens to disagree with you on the topic. Just the same way that some people cannot fathom why anyone would spank their child, others are baffled by those who think it is horrific. It is a good thing we only have to answer to God for the way we raise our children, because if we were subject to the judgement of people, I'd have been stoned to death long ago.

I agree.

Entertaining_Angels · Oct 16, 2006

Just take it to the Pastor and ask. Often books are donated. I once found a Kenneth Hagin book in our church's library and marched it right in to the pastor who apologized profusely and had no clue it was in there He was actually shocked because a number of us had gotten away from these teachings and he never would have allowed that book in there. If you don't know, Kenneth Hagin is associated with Word of Faith (which is what I grew up with) and considered by many to be cultic in nature.

Often books are donated and people don't realize they are there. Just ask the Pastor and while you're at it, find out their stance on spanking and see if you agree or if it is enough to cause you to look for another church.

jazzbird · Oct 16, 2006

I agree with everyone who says take your concern to the pastor. That book does not sound appropriate for a church library.

BTW, I really enjoyed Grace Based Parenting too.

GolfingMom · Oct 16, 2006

I haven't read the book and the reviews I've read are either "Love it" or "hate it".
I agree with LucyPevensie and Oregal.
I did want to mention that just b/c a church has a book in it's library doesn't mean they advocate the teaching. AND the church usually tries to have items for everyone. While you may disagree with the teachings in the book, other members might live by them. We all parent so differently - so what may be wrong to you, may not be wrong to the person sitting next to you! Life would be too boring if we all agreed - all the time and did everything the same!

~RENEE~ · Oct 16, 2006

This sounds so familar I wonder if my mother didn't listen to him. Oh my I can still remember hiding in the closet the escape her. I can remeber the blood that I would shed at her hands and no one talked about it.

lin1235 · Oct 17, 2006

I wouldn't judge the church based on that book. Remember, the person in charge of purchases doesn't necessarily have the time to read every single book before deciding to buy it. For every book that gets published, there will be some people who agree with it and others who disagree. It may have been bought based on bad advice... it's a good idea for you to bring this to the Pastor's attention, God may use you to get this book out of the library and prevent others from stumbling after reading it.

Stan53 · Oct 17, 2006

I have heard of this gentleman. I certainly wouldn't advocate his methods at all. I should say it is child abuse although I can only say by what I have heard. Certainly his methods have failed in thier objective. Physical treatment of a child should be designed to encourage a change of attitude not one of terror.
I am going to add a rider here. This is from an Australian perspective. When I grew up "spanking" meant being punished with an impliment. I believe in the States that "smacking" a child has the same meaning.
As a parent who does believe in physical correction of a child when need be, I do not agree with the use of an impliment at all.
If one wishes to engage in a discussion, which I don't, on physical discipline please read what the Bible has to say on the matter and at the same time, don't try to interprit the Bible. Accept what it says. If you find that difficult go back to the original Hebrew or Greek. Despite what some will have us believe the Bible is crystal clear on the matter. I was extremely surprised when I did word research on the original Hebrew words.

Romanseight2005 · Oct 17, 2006

Beth1231 said:
Most of the mom's on this board associate the word "spanking" with a few light to moderate swats on the bum. Roy Lessin's book teaches a parent how to torture their child physically, emotionally and spiritually. I have never read it and never will. The testimonies of adults who endured his practices are enough for me.

For those of you who aren't familiar with his book, it is horribly detailed in how to make your child strip for his punishment, beat them unmercifully with a rod or belt and then if they cry too much, to beat them again to teach them not to rebel. I mean, it is really sick.

Wow! I had no idea such a book was out there!

wanderingone · Oct 17, 2006

While I wouldn't immediately "judge" the church, I would ask the pastor about it. If this book or similar stuff was in our church library and it was "accidental" as in my church neglected to review what they have in their own library I'd ask if we could work on developing a policy for what's there. Too many Christians happily accept anything that contains the word "Christian" spouts Bible verses or plops a fish on the cover as acceptable without ever looking into the content.

If the pastor has no problem with the book I'd want to know why, and most likely we'd be looking for another church.

While a public library is for everyone I expect my church library to have books that line up with the church's stated beliefs. We have a "research and reference" shelf that contains books about controversial topics from an alternative (to the church) point of view. People in the church for years would be quite aware of what the view is on most issues in their congregation, but new members or visitor and seekers might be turned off or confused by a reference room that contains conflicting messages.

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