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And there is a reason the Church retained them all.
Well that's an interesting opinion I suppose, but you should read up on the gospels and the academic literature to base your conclusions in something a bit more concrete than how it seems at face value.No, even the thief on the cross story, although beautiful, is not found in Mathew, Mark or John. Those three gospels record the story differently. I see John and Mathew as a wonderfully complete gospel when read together. I see luke as a flawed record, possibly. Im not sure what to say about Mark.
Well that's an interesting opinion I suppose, but you should read up on the gospels and the academic literature to base your conclusions in something a bit more concrete than how it seems at face value.
It doesn't really matter i suppose, as i said, i see Mathew and John as a complete picture anyway
John himself admits that his gospel is not a complete picture (John 20:30). Don't miss the richness of what all of Scripture has to offer. Likewise, do not try to get out of obedience to parts of Scripture that don't fit your view of what is or isn't complete.
No. John is saying that Jesus did and said many other things that are not recorded in John's gospel. John strategically included certain sayings and stories so that his readers might believe that Jesus is the Christ. My point, though, is that John's gospel is not "complete" in the sense that it conveys everything there is to know about Jesus. And John himself admits this.Thats not what John is saying. Hes talking about faith which comes by hearing. Hes not talking about faith that comes by Luke.
No. John is saying that Jesus did and said many other things that are not recorded in John's gospel. John strategically included certain sayings and stories so that his readers might believe that Jesus is the Christ. My point, though, is that John's gospel is not "complete" in the sense that it conveys everything there is to know about Jesus. And John himself admits this.
How much of Christianity is Paul? Is the faith as we know it made up mostly of Paul and his teachings?
Where would we be without Paul?
I have wondered about Paul. He does seem to take up a large part of the NT in his writings etc. Did he have his own agenda? Was his teachings very different from those of Jesus?
I ask these questions because i am curious to know if others have asked these questions and what answers people give. I for one are very much inexperienced in Biblical matters but i am trying to learn more and more as time goes on.
I am surprised by the amount of people who dont like Pauls teaching. I am no scholar but always thought Paul was talking via the Holt Spirit within him?
Except that Abraham was a gentile.Paul had plenty of chances to outright demand people be circumcized and also keep the Sabbath but never did so in fact he did the opposite. The OT doesn't include Gentiles in the nation of Israel and in the New Testament Jesus commanded his Apostles to NOT go unto the Gentiles and didn't include the Gentiles in the midst of his talk until he approached Paul.
In other words without Paul the Gentiles were clueless to where they stood with God. Paul never commanded Gentiles to keep the Law.
2 Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God"
Peter said "Holy men of old - moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from God" 2Peter 1:21
The 1st century Jewish rulers and their followers, along with the apostate non-Christian Jews of today?I know that Muslims don't like Paul - - who else does not like him??
No.... because there was no Jew OR Gentile at his time there was only people of faith and those without it.Except that Abraham was a gentile.
And so are the Jews themselves.You are certainly free to believe that.
And yet the Jew does not accept Jesus was the promised Messiah. And I am a Christian .And so are the Jews themselves.
Who is a Jew?
A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.
It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship. See What Is Judaism?
http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm
I disagree, and your thinking has Jews vs Gentiles called into being not because of Abraham's existence but because of those born from him.... their existence and you have Gentiles and Jews coming from a Gentile which makes no sense at all. Adam wasn't a Gentile there were no Gentiles till Israel became a nation and then we had separate defined by God culture and government thereof. Essentially Gentiles didn't exist till Jews existed it was the separation that cause the two to "split" essentially becoming Jew and "non Jew" (or Gentile).And yet the Jew does not accept Jesus was the promised Messiah. And I am a Christian .
"It seems, then, that the formal separation of Jews and Gentiles did not occur until God called Abraham to be the father of His chosen nation, Israel (Genesis 12). Many view Abraham as the first Jew, even though the precise term Jew did not come into use until after the return from exile when the tribe of Judah (“Jew”-dah) was dominant. However, since Abraham’s son Ishmael was not of the chosen line, and since Abraham’s grandson Esau was not of the chosen line, a more accurate placement of the division of Jews from Gentiles would be with Jacob, whose name was changed by God to Israel (Genesis 32:28). All of the descendants of Jacob, through his 12 sons (the fathers of the 12 tribes of Israel), were members of God’s chosen nation. Therefore, it seems most biblically sound to place the division of Jew and Gentile at Jacob, the father of Israel.
What was God’s purpose in separating Jews from Gentiles? God’s desire for the Jews was that they would go and teach the Gentiles about Him. Israel was to be a nation of priests, prophets, and missionaries to the world. God’s intent was for Israel to be a distinct people, a nation who pointed others toward God and His promised provision of a Redeemer, Messiah, and Savior." Question: "When did the separation of humanity into Jews and Gentiles occur?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jews-and-Gentiles.html
And yet the Jew does not accept Jesus was the promised Messiah. And I am a Christian .
"It seems, then, that the formal separation of Jews and Gentiles did not occur until God called Abraham to be the father of His chosen nation, Israel (Genesis 12). Many view Abraham as the first Jew, even though the precise term Jew did not come into use until after the return from exile when the tribe of Judah (“Jew”-dah) was dominant. However, since Abraham’s son Ishmael was not of the chosen line, and since Abraham’s grandson Esau was not of the chosen line, a more accurate placement of the division of Jews from Gentiles would be with Jacob, whose name was changed by God to Israel (Genesis 32:28). All of the descendants of Jacob, through his 12 sons (the fathers of the 12 tribes of Israel), were members of God’s chosen nation. Therefore, it seems most biblically sound to place the division of Jew and Gentile at Jacob, the father of Israel.
What was God’s purpose in separating Jews from Gentiles? God’s desire for the Jews was that they would go and teach the Gentiles about Him. Israel was to be a nation of priests, prophets, and missionaries to the world. God’s intent was for Israel to be a distinct people, a nation who pointed others toward God and His promised provision of a Redeemer, Messiah, and Savior."
Question: "When did the separation of humanity into Jews and Gentiles occur?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jews-and-Gentiles.html
After the death of Solomon?Question: "When did the separation of humanity into Jews and Gentiles occur?"
Phl 3:5
The Northern Kingdom of Israel consisted of the rest of the tribes. Another words, all Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews.circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee
After the death of Solomon?
From what I know, the Southern Kingdom of Judah consisted at first of David's tribe, Judah[Jews].
The 2 tribes of Levi [the Priestly tribe] and Benjamin [Apostle Paul's tribe] joined with it.
The Northern Kingdom of Israel consisted of the rest of the tribes. Another words, all Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews.
"GENTILES" can also be rendered as "NATIONS", which I am assuming could include non-Jews, even tho the Nation of Judah is called a "NATION". Hope that makes sense.
Jeremiah 3:
8 "And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce,
yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Kingdoms1.html
The Division A Punishment For Solomon's Apostasy
Although the division of the Israelites was accomplished by means of the foolishness of Rehoboam, it was actually decreed by God beforehand for a purpose:
"And at that time, when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him on the road. Now Ahijah had clad himself with a new garment; and the two of them were alone in the open country. Then Ahijah laid hold of the new garment that was on him, and tore it into twelve pieces.
And he said to Jeroboam, "Take for yourself ten pieces; for thus says The Lord, the God of Israel, 'Behold, I am about to tear the kingdom from the hand of Solomon, and will give you ten tribes,
but he shall have one tribe, for the sake of My servant David and for the sake of Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, because he has forsaken Me, and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of Moab, and Milcom the god of the Ammonites, and has not walked in
My ways, doing what is right in My sight and keeping My statutes and My ordinances, as David his father did. Nevertheless I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand; but I will make him ruler all the days of his life, for the sake of David My servant whom I chose, who kept My commandments and My statutes; but I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it to you, ten tribes." (1 Kings 11:29-35 RSV)
Israel's Kingdoms
The United Kingdom of Israel lasted through the reigns of Saul, David and Solomon. After Solomon died, the kingdom split into two, the ten tribes (Reuben, Simeon, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph (Ephraim and Manasseh) and Benjamin) of "Israel" with their capital up in Samaria, and the tribes of Benjamin and Judah forming the kingdom of "Judah" with their capital at Jerusalem.
The northern kingdom of Israel lasted a little over 200 years before it was gradually conquered by the Assyrians (see Ancient Empires - Assyria), and by 721 B.C. they had practically all been taken into exile to Assyria (2 Kings 17:1-23). The vast majority of them never returned, and have become known as the "Lost Ten Tribes of Israel."
Then, about 135 years later, in 586 B.C., the southern kingdom of Judah was conquered by the Babylonians (see Why Babylon?), and the Jews were taken into captivity to Babylon. The original Temple of God in Jerusalem was destroyed at that time (see Temples and Temple Mount Treasures). The people of the southern kingdom of Judah however did return after the Babylonians fell to the Persians (see Ancient Empires - Persia), and their descendants have become the Jewish people of today.
====================================================================================================
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jew.htm
In his classic Facts are Facts, Jewish historian, researcher and scholar Benjamin Freedman writes:
Jesus is referred as a so-called "Jew" for the first time in the New Testament in the 18th century. Jesus is first referred to as a so-called "Jew" in the revised 18th century editions in the English language of the 14th century first translations of the New Testament into English. The history of the origin of the word "Jew" in the English language leaves no doubt that the 18th century "Jew" is the 18th century contracted and corrupted English word for the 4th century Latin "Iudaeus" found in St. Jerome's Vulgate Edition. Of that there is no longer doubt.............................
(The word Jew was coined by Nebuchadnezzar's troops as an abbreviation of the word "Judean." A Jew or Judean is one who is a resident of Judea regardless of his religion, race, or nationality. Every resident of Palestine is a "Jew" whereas the so-called Jews living abroad are not Jews at all, neither by residence, nor by birth, nor by religion. This is confirmed by the Bible in the Old and New Testaments, Jewish historians such as Josephus, Professor of Medieval Jewish History at Tel Aviv University, A. N. Poliak in his book Khazaria (1944, 1951); American historian Professor Dunlop of Columbia University in his article on the Khazars in the Encyclopaedia Judaica (1971); Noam Chomsky in his book, Fateful Triangle, Arthur Koestler in his masterpiece, The Thirteenth Tribe ; Professor Heinrich H. Graetz in his History of the Jews, p. 141 (1891-98); Soviet archaeologist M. I. Artamonov in Istoria Khazar, Benjamin Freedman in Facts are Facts, Chief Rabbi of the United States, the late Steven S. Wise, the Message of William Branham the Prophet of Malachi 4:5-6 and Revelation 10:7, every Jewish and all Gentile encyclopaedias affirm that barely any so-called Jew is an Israelite let alone Semitic. Note also that Judaism is Pharisaism based on the Talmud, which is the antithesis of pre-exilic Yahweh Torah or Yahwism, the Law and the Prophets, and accursed of God in Matthew 15:1-9, and Moses in Deuteronomy 5:22; 12:32). ......................
.
I think the 2 lung concept was a RC one concerning the RCC and EOC. I remember I made a thread on it:Wow, what a big mess that is. It would take much study to learn all that. Thank God there is neither Jew or Gentile in the Kingdom of Christ. There are only Capitalists and Socialist now, i guess...i think.
Or is that the Left and Right lung? WHat??
Hello dear friends. I have a question.
I saw this thread on the OBOB earlier mentioning "2 Lungs".
Did this concept arise from out of the RCC or EOC? And what are the EOs views on it. Thank you and God bless
http://www.christianforums.com/t7468666/
Orthodox and Catholic Bond Deepens: Will the Two Lungs of the Church Breathe....
*snip*
...Together Again? *Permission to post full text*
Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)
Move toward full communion between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches most important development of the Third Christian Millennium
The move toward full communion between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches is prompted by the Holy Spirit. It is the most important development of the Third Christian Millennium. It has extraordinary implications for the West, indeed for the whole world, at a critical time in history. Let us pray that it happens - for the sake of a world still waiting to be set free and reborn into the New World of the Church......................
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