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Goriller said:And no Christian would ever be caught dead mocking the wicked, as Gods men in the Bible sometimes did.
Goriller said:Christians today are nicer than God. Or at least they are trying to be so. In the Church there is a standard of niceness that Jesus failed to reach while on earth. Comparing Gods attitude and behavior with that of the Church today shows that believers are far more polite, tolerant, understanding and respectful to the wicked than God is. The Church is also less offensive, rude and sarcastic than Gods men in the Bible were. And no Christian would ever be caught dead mocking the wicked, as Gods men in the Bible sometimes did.
Jesus was offensive. Most people were offended by him. The proof for John the Baptist that Jesus was the Christ was that the blind see, the lame walk and the majority are "offended" by Him (Mat. 11:2-19). As Jesus said, "Blessed is he who is not offended because of Me" (Mat. 11:6; Luke 7:23). In Galilee, Jesus did not plead with his neighbors to understand Him when "they were offended at Him" (Mat. 13:57; Mark 6:3). If unbelievers are offended, so be it (cf. Luke 14:3-4; John 5:8-16). "Shake off the dust from your feet" (Mat. 10:14). But alas, that is no longer a "Christian" attitude.
Christs apostles asked Him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard [Your] saying?" (Mat. 15:12). What is the accepted Christian response today after an offense is taken? Quick, apologize! Ask for forgiveness! Tell them you are sorry. How did Jesus respond? He said to ignore the complaints of the unbelievers: "Let them alone. They are blind," (Mat. 15:14). Today, many Christians condemn Christs attitude as unloving.
Jesus promised his followers, "you will be hated by all nations for My names sake. And then many will be offended" (Mat. 24:9-10). Jesus taught that if they hated Me, they will hate you" (see John 15:18-19; 17:14; Mat. 10:22; Luke 21:17). Today Christians think if the world hates them, they have failed. The reverse should be true. It is not that a Christian wants to be hated; it is simply an occupational hazard.
The Bible sometimes ministers through ridicule, humor, sarcasm and even mocking. For example, God mocked the Midianites when He defeated them after sending a nightmare to them that they were being attacked by a loaf of bread (Jud. 7:13-14). Elijah, just prior to executing 450 prophets of Baal, "mocked them" as the Bible says, telling them to yell louder to their god so that Baal could hear their prayers since he was either on a trip, sleeping or in the restroom (Hebrew, "private place," 1 Ki. 18:27; and 2 Ki. 6:8-20).
When the Ad Council airs anti-drug public service announcements (PSAs) that mock "pot heads on Jeopardy" who cannot even remember their names, they are not motivated out of hatred, but out of love. Ridicule can and does save lives. "Why do you think they call it dope?" Ad Council spots run on Christian stations and get no criticism for being unloving or unkind. Why is it that Christians never rise up against the effort to stigmatize drug users? If a pagan brings peer pressure against "pot heads," that is accepted. Let a believer, however, use mockery to stigmatize fornication or sodomy, and the Church rises in condemnation. God, however, does not condemn those who "rebuke the wicked" (see Prov. 24:25).
When a harsh word is needed God uses a harsh word. This is true in the Old and New Testaments. Herod beheaded John the Baptist for "rebuking" the king for "all the evils which Herod had done" (Luke 3:19) and for condemning the tetrarch for incestuous adultery (Mat. 14:3-4; Mark 6:17-18; Lev. 18:16; 20:21) with "Herodias, his brother Philips wife" (Luke 3:19). Jesus warned of "the leaven of Herod" (Mark 8:15). When notified that "Herod wants to kill You," (Luke 13:31), Christ responded without respect, "Go, tell that fox, I cast out demons " (Luke 13:32).
The especially harsh term hypocrite is used in the Gospels twenty-three times. Christ often insulted the scribes, Pharisees and lawyers. He even called the Pharisees blind guides (Mat. 23:16, 24) and sons of hell (Mat. 23:15). Jesus spoke unkind words unacceptable today. He said to Peter "Get behind me, Satan" (Mat. 16:23). He told the Pharisees "You are of your father the devil" (John 8:44), and made a whip and cleared "thieves" from the temple (Mat. 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-17; Luke 19:45-46; John 2:14:15).
Gentiles (as symbols of the godless) and sodomites are called "dogs" in the Bible (Mat. 7:6; 15:26; Deut. 23:17-18; Ps. 22:16; 59:5-6; Phil. 3:2; Rev. 22:15). And Jesus was harsh (not only to the Pharisees, as some believers wrongly assume but) to all the unrepentant (see His use of "hypocrite"). Jesus instructs Christians to not "cast your pearls before swine" (Mat. 7:6). Yet the silly dilemma now is, "Who could Christ possibly have meant by that, for we are too loving, tolerant, polite and respectful to refer to any human being by that mean-spirited term."
In the King James Version, the seductive women among the people of God are worse than "harlots" (Ezek. 16:33). That crude term appears in the Bible dozens of times. The men who use those women are "whoremongers" (1 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 13:4; Rev. 21:8; 22:15), which is the most raw term in the English language to describe promiscuous men. God describes other sinners in terms of filthy excrement (Isa. 64:6) and even worse (2 Ki. 18:27; Isa. 36:12). Sinners truly are repulsive, regardless of how Christians today try to sanitize them.
The Bible does not say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner." It says, "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he" (Prov. 23:7). And that God hates "all workers of iniquity" (Ps 5:5). "The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man" (Ps 5:6). Also "the wicked and the one who loves violence [God] hates." (Ps 11:5). Further, "The face of the Lord is against those who do evil" (Ps 34:16). God "loves righteousness and hatewickedness (Ps. 45:7).
There are six things "the Lord hates," including "a heart that devises wicked plans a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren" (Prov. 6:16-19). And God reminds us "All their wickedness is in Gilgal, for there I hated them. Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house; I will love them no more" (Ho 9:13). As Moses wrote of God, "if you do not obey Me... My soul shall abhor you" (Lev. 26:27-30).
Even in the New Testament, Paul wrote, "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9) introducing the concept of hypocritical love. What is hypocritical love? "Should you love those who hate the Lord? Therefore the wrath of the Lord is upon you" (2 Chr. 19:2). Warning the wicked of the coming judgment is harsh, but is a necessary component of acceptable love. A love that is not hypocritical rebukes and condemns, and then points the way to God.
God uses different methods to communicate the Gospel to people at different depths of depravity. At times, a Christian can pray with an unbeliever. At other times, a believer might ridicule the unrepentant in hopes of waking him up. Painful communication though is in no way reserved just for non-Christians.
Paul uses dripping sarcasm telling the Corinthians that they do not need his counsel because they are full, rich, wise, strong and distinguished. They are even like kings, and all that without Pauls help (1 Cor. 4:8, 10). Sarcasm stigmatizes destructive behavior and prods people toward righteousness (1 Cor. 4:14). Paul also fell short of todays compassionate Christianity when he wrote that the government should minister terror, wrath and vengeance against the evildoer and that the sword should be used against them (Rom. 13:3-4). The Apostle also erred by todays standards calling unbelievers fools (Rom. 1:22) and the Galatians fools (Gal. 3:1, 3). Incidentally, Jesus also called men fools (Mat. 23:17, 19; 25:2-8; Luke 11:40; 12:20) when appropriate but never "without a cause" (Mat. 5:22) according to His teaching. As King David wrote, "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God." (Ps. 53:1). Thus, atheists are fools and it is cruel to withhold this knowledge from them.
Christians enjoy quoting, "No weapon formed against you shall prosper." However many shudder at the rest of the verse. For thus says the Lord, "Every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall condemn" (Isa. 54:17). Jesus taught that human beings will condemn the wicked. "The men of Nineveh will rise in the judgment with this generation and condemn it" (Mat. 12:41). Jesus said, "For God so loved the world." Then two verses later He added, "but he who does not believe is condemned already" (John 3:18). By todays Christian standard, no unbeliever would know that he is condemned, because most believers will not communicate this vital truth. John 3:16 is nice. John 3:18 is not nice.
Jesus was a man, not a girl. Christianity today has been emasculated. Men and women are different and they communicate differently. Women are softer and nicer than men, and thank God that they are. However, men are not supposed to be women. Today, Christian ministers are expected to behave like women. That foolishness is a death sentence for many unbelievers. Strength, confidence, conviction and tough love appeal to those who are searching. Thus Jesus is a beacon to real seekers. But for those wanting to get lost, Christ is like a street sign that has been reversed by a troublemaker.
Today we are way nicer than God. It is tragic. This spiritual plateau that the Church has reached conveniently reduces the chances for confrontation. Nice people rarely rebuke, judge, confront, accuse or condemn. Nice people have less stress. It seems the only ones that Christians are quick to judge and condemn are fellow believers who judge and condemn the wicked. Why is this? My guess is because Christians worship being "liked" more than they worship Jesus Christ. If judgementalism becomes the expected life-style for Christians, then that would mean THEY would have to judge! And that might make them . . . (oh no! . . . dare I say it?) . . . UNPOPULAR!!! Horror of horrors! Someone might not like me!
Wimps, wimps wimps. I'm sick and tired of Christian wimps.
Here! Here! I say all the time that most Christians worship the false god of Public Acceptance.TwinCrier said:The greatest fear in the times for Christians is not being fed to lions, it's being unpopular.
I agree with your whole post except for this. God wants us to advocate the government legally executing murderers and homosexuals.LuxPerpetua said:I don't think that God wants us to kill, torment, or persecute abortion doctors or homosexuals, etc.
And I agree with most of what you posted, Goriller, except for this. I am a strong, on-fire Christian, not lukewarm in doctrine. But I am going to leave it up to God what he wants to do in judgment of murderers and homosexuals. As my sis-in-law said, If we kill them we must save them first!Goriller said:I agree with your whole post except for this. God wants us to advocate the government legally.
Goriller said:Today we are way nicer than God. It is tragic. This spiritual plateau that the Church has reached conveniently reduces the chances for confrontation. Nice people rarely rebuke, judge, confront, accuse or condemn. Nice people have less stress. It seems the only ones that Christians are quick to judge and condemn are fellow believers who judge and condemn the wicked. Why is this? My guess is because Christians worship being "liked" more than they worship Jesus Christ. If judgementalism becomes the expected life-style for Christians, then that would mean THEY would have to judge! And that might make them . . . (oh no! . . . dare I say it?) . . . UNPOPULAR!!! Horror of horrors! Someone might not like me!
Wimps, wimps wimps. I'm sick and tired of Christian wimps.
Today we are way nicer than God. It is tragic. This spiritual plateau that the Church has reached conveniently reduces the chances for confrontation. Nice people rarely rebuke, judge, confront, accuse or condemn. Nice people have less stress. It seems the only ones that Christians are quick to judge and condemn are fellow believers who judge and condemn the wicked. Why is this? My guess is because Christians worship being "liked" more than they worship Jesus Christ. If judgementalism becomes the expected life-style for Christians, then that would mean THEY would have to judge! And that might make them . . . (oh no! . . . dare I say it?) . . . UNPOPULAR!!! Horror of horrors! Someone might not like me!
Wimps, wimps wimps. I'm sick and tired of Christian wimps.
Really bad analogy and thank Goodness you are not in my courtroom, for I would show you just how "soft" this woman can be.Jesus was a man, not a girl. Christianity today has been emasculated. Men and women are different and they communicate differently. Women are softer and nicer than men, and thank God that they are. However, men are not supposed to be women. Today, Christian ministers are expected to behave like women. That foolishness is a death sentence for many unbelievers. Strength, confidence, conviction and tough love appeal to those who are searching. Thus Jesus is a beacon to real seekers. But for those wanting to get lost, Christ is like a street sign that has been reversed by a troublemaker
Looks like I hit a nerve. Tell me andry, can you prove you do not worship the false god of Public Acceptance?andry said:O wise one, please enlighten us with your profound wisdom on what you are doing about it?
1. What is your purpose on this earth?
2. Would God agree with you that us Christian wimps are actually nicer than him? Wow, that made my day, I'm actually nicer than God? Wooohooo..!
3. How did you get to your esteemed positioned of judge and jury? I believe the executioner position is filled, but you may want to check into that, as you must also be more than qualified to do that.
4. Please enlighten us poor souls on how to evangelize effectively.
Lastly, I'm probably mistaken, or I've been reading the wrong Bible, but in Matt 11:29-30, Jesus said, Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.' NIV
But you said "Nice people have less stress." So if my yoke is easy and my burden is light, I must be, according to you, a nice person, and ergo, a Christian wimp. Wonderful.
Right, be we need to be careful. You cannot criticize or be angry with a non-christian about a christian issue, they do not know. Even Jesus said "Have mercy on them, for they do not know what they do."GOod point. I fell I have very right to tell somone that they are wrong whether they are offended or not. (if they truly are wrong)
Flynmonkie said:
First thing that should be clarified here is that we are not GOD.
It is not our place to Judge as God does. We are to always use Discretion and Discernment in our judgments. And to maintain a Christ-like behavior. Sure Jesus got angry, when his fathers home was being defiled. But you did not see him as a norm running around acting angry at the world for their sins did you? Actually, just the opposite. Taking an "in your face" attitude is the way of man, Not the way of Christ.
Goriller said:Looks like I hit a nerve. Tell me andry, can you prove you do not worship the false god of Public Acceptance?
To glorify God by enjoying Him.andry said:O wise one, please enlighten us with your profound wisdom on what you are doing about it?
1. What is your purpose on this earth?
Yes, being nicer than God is unbiblical. God commands us to rebuke sinners in order to save them from the harm they do to themselves and others. But that might make them "not like us" so most Chistians who worship the false god of Public Acceptance, who worship their comfort zones, don't say anything at all and the sinner continues in his adulterous affair or alchoholism or theft from the company he works for and the next thing you know he loses his family, his wife loses her husband and his children lose their father. All because some "nicer than God" Christian didn't want to be disliked for a whole 30 seconds by the person he was thinking about rebuking.2. Would God agree with you that us Christian wimps are actually nicer than him?
And you will have to explain to God one day why you were too much of a coward to risk being disliked by anyone.Wow, that made my day, I'm actually nicer than God? Wooohooo..!
I am commanded in the Bible to judge.3. How did you get to your esteemed positioned of judge and jury? I believe the executioner position is filled, but you may want to check into that, as you must also be more than qualified to do that.
Sure, no problem. Sinners need to be convinced that they are sinners before they will ask for forgiveness. This is why the Bible says the Law was our tudor to bring us to Christ. Show sinners how much they have violated the Law and they will see their need for forgiveness. But showing people they are sinners will cause many of them to not like you for a whole 30 seconds, therefore most Christians reject this method.4. Please enlighten us poor souls on how to evangelize effectively.
Most of the disciples who took Christ's yoke upon them were martyred. Christ was also murdered. Many Christians down through the centuries were martyred for their faith. But the fact that most Christians today are not even disliked by anyone is testimony that there is something wrong with their spiritual walk.Lastly, I'm probably mistaken, or I've been reading the wrong Bible, but in Matt 11:29-30, Jesus said, Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.' NIV
But you said "Nice people have less stress." So if my yoke is easy and my burden is light, I must be, according to you, a nice person, and ergo, a Christian wimp. Wonderful.
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