I agree. My wife and I use the abbreviation "Cmas."
People here almost never say "Happy Christmas." Sometimes I do, just to be different, and they look at me like, "what?"
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I agree. My wife and I use the abbreviation "Cmas."The only thing I try to avoid is Xmas instead of Christmas.
It's interesting that music activates the same areas of the brain that people use while solving spatial-temporal reasoning problems.My partner is occassionally teaching me how to play the piano and dance waltzes but tbh I'm a mathematician and the only rhythm I've got is loga-rhythms.
While I agree with you that Jewish views about Sheol in the 1st century are relevant to the discussion, it is clear that Jews believed that most people would come out of Sheol / Hades and have an inheritance in Paradise. That that place itself lasts forever is not an indication that all people are punished forever. I think both @hedrick and myself mentioned these facts several times before.in Israel before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of eternal, fiery punishment which the Jews, themselves called sheol and Ge Hinnom, translated as Hades and Gehenna, respectively in the 225 BC LXX and the NT.
The modern popular concept of Hell is akin of the Lake of Fire in Revelation. It is not the same thing as Hades, which is mentioned in Lk 16:19-31. In Hades, souls suffer immediately after death. But in the LOF, after resurrection of the body.I as well. Also Luke 16:19-31 gives us fairly good view.
It's interesting that music activates the same areas of the brain that subjects use while solving spatial-temporal reasoning problems.
Is There a Link between Music and Math?
OK. "The Talmud offers a number of thoughts relating to the afterlife. After death, the soul is brought for judgment. Those who have led pristine lives enter immediately into the Olam Haba or world to come. Most do not enter the world to come immediately, but now experience a period of review of their earthly actions and they are made aware of what they have done wrong. Some view this period as being a "re-schooling", with the soul gaining wisdom as one's errors are reviewed. Others view this period to include spiritual discomfort for past wrongs. At the end of this period, not longer than one year, the soul then takes its place in the world to come. Although discomforts are made part of certain Jewish conceptions of the afterlife, the concept of eternal damnation is not a tenet of the Jewish afterlife. According to the Talmud, extinction of the soul is reserved for a far smaller group of malicious and evil leaders."I believe what the Jews believed. Jesus didn't contradict them so why should I? You may read my previous post on this.
He did. Jews believed that souls were punished in Gehenna immediately after death. But the Lord said to them:If that is true why didn't Jesus confront them and correct their false beliefs?
I think that may be an attempt to summarize beliefs that are later than Jesus’ time. In particular, the idea that the thoroughly evil are annihilated doesn’t seem to be from that period. Bernstein’s book considers that a later modification of Shammai’s view. Shammai died in 30 AD.OK. "The Talmud offers a number of thoughts relating to the afterlife. After death, the soul is brought for judgment. Those who have led pristine lives enter immediately into the Olam Haba or world to come. Most do not enter the world to come immediately, but now experience a period of review of their earthly actions and they are made aware of what they have done wrong. Some view this period as being a "re-schooling", with the soul gaining wisdom as one's errors are reviewed. Others view this period to include spiritual discomfort for past wrongs. At the end of this period, not longer than one year, the soul then takes its place in the world to come. Although discomforts are made part of certain Jewish conceptions of the afterlife, the concept of eternal damnation is not a tenet of the Jewish afterlife. According to the Talmud, extinction of the soul is reserved for a far smaller group of malicious and evil leaders."
Life after death - the afterlife - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize
Afterlife - Wikipedia
I can, also, see that in both John and Paul. I read all of Romans, recently. The impression I'm getting is that there is one group, of Jews and Gentiles, who are saved in this life. But the rest of the people are not eternally lost. But contrary to Calvin, Romans seems to give hope for their future salvation. Perhaps one can say the same about other writings of Paul and John.John is more interesting. It doesn't seem to talk about punishment, though it does talk about judgement and dying in your sins. I could make a case for conditional immortality in both John and Paul, with sin resulting in death unless you are united to Christ in faith or rebirth.
I strongly recommend Netflix movie "The Forgiven." It is amazing that a person who experienced Apartheid atrocities would believe in eternal salvation of the criminals.Ah, that's a shame. Desmond Tutu has died today on Boxing Day.
Anti-apartheid hero Archbishop Desmond Tutu dies aged 90
He was the Archbishop of Cape Town and a Nobel Peace Prize winner for his work against Apartheid.
He was a Christian universalist and here are some words from him on UR:
I don't know. I see why you say there's hope in Paul. Rom 2 is really about Gentiles, not non-Christians, but I think it can be extended to some non-Christians. Of course the fact that Abraham is a model of faith says it can't just be explicit faith in Christ.I can, also, see that in both John and Paul. I read all of Romans, recently. The impression I'm getting is that there is one group, of Jews and Gentiles, who are saved in this life. But the rest of the people are not eternally lost. But contrary to Calvin, Romans seems to give hope for their future salvation. Perhaps one can say the same about other writings of Paul and John.
Am I reading my bias into the text?
You truly are the king of fallacious arguments. No shame in employing such a blatant strawman coupled with an ad hominem, huh? No one said they imagined something, but that they had developed an interpretation that Jesus does not repudiate but instead heightened. Jesus actually had a great deal of theological agreement with the Pharisee's, so to try to highlight that Jesus corrected them at points is extraneous to the question at hand because he did not offer any sort of correction to their views on hell instead heightening them.So the idea is that the Jewish religious figures imagined something, and Jesus went on to confirm it and tell them that the reality is even worse than what they imagined. In other words, the reality of the situation isn't to be found in what God told us through all of his prophets and judges, but rather to be found in the imagining of Jewish religious figures who came afterwards. The same Jewish religious figures who's teaching Jesus condemned and who decided that Jesus was a liar and false prophet and had him crucified. I don't see how that can possibly add up.
As I have said before, Jesus did confront them regarding their false teaching. I've posted scripture showing that. But then you go right back to square one. Round and round, over and over, repeat rerun repeat.
Absolutely false. I never said anything like this. Try reading what I say and respond to that, or I might have to take it higher.Your belief is that Jesus was teaching things that appealed to and affirmed post prophet writings of things that did not exist in the writings of the prophets that were compiled into the Old Testament. That Jesus was appealing to a system of teaching he condemned as corrupt and to post prophet apocryphal deuterocanonical writings such as Judith.
My belief is that Jesus was reaching back to what was written by his own appointed prophets about Jesus himself and the final judgement of Israel in the role of being Israel's final prophet. That his speaking about the Valley of Hinnom etc was in reference to what had been written by his appointed prophets, rather than to what was written in Judith or any other deuterocanonical apocrypha
Still deliberately misrepresenting what I said. Please help me out here what did Jesus' appointed prophets say about the valley of Hinnom that Jesus was referring to when He mentioned"Gehenna?"
Absolutely correct. But ponder this there ain't no "nations" in the grave or anywhere else after death. The only thing in the grave, Gehenna, Hades are individual dead bodies. To be blessed it must be done in this life.* * *
Paul needs to remind them in Gal 3 that it is God's promise to Abraham that all nations shall be blessed, which is given by the faith of Christ. That universal spiritual blessing is the making righteous (justification) of the nations, preceding and fulfilling the law. And that blessing is partaken of by all who believe, unlike the fleshy curse under the works of the law.* * *
Yes. My understanding is that the 12 tone chromatic scale was developed as you stated with a few observations to begin with. The octave, then the fifth. Equal divisions followed for the rest.Maths and music are inextricably linked. The scale has 12 tones. The relationship between an octave is 1:2 (get a string, play a note, cut it in half, the note will be an octave higher). A perfect fifth is 3:2. And so on. This study is fascinating and I spent some time on it years back. Have a quick leaf through this, to give you a taste of the simple stuff!
Music and mathematics - Wikipedia
2,500 years of musical temperaments - Temperament Comparison
Since you ignored my post and didn't actually respond to it directly, please give me one good reason why I should read your post?OK. "The Talmud offers a number of thoughts relating to the afterlife. After death, the soul is brought for judgment. Those who have led pristine lives enter immediately into the Olam Haba or world to come. Most do not enter the world to come immediately, but now experience a period of review of their earthly actions and they are made aware of what they have done wrong. Some view this period as being a "re-schooling", with the soul gaining wisdom as one's errors are reviewed. Others view this period to include spiritual discomfort for past wrongs. At the end of this period, not longer than one year, the soul then takes its place in the world to come. Although discomforts are made part of certain Jewish conceptions of the afterlife, the concept of eternal damnation is not a tenet of the Jewish afterlife. According to the Talmud, extinction of the soul is reserved for a far smaller group of malicious and evil leaders."
Life after death - the afterlife - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize
Afterlife - Wikipedia
He did. Jews believed that souls were punished in Gehenna immediately after death. But the Lord said to them:
Mat 10:28 And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul. Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
I don't see a problem, with Xmas. In Greek Christos/Christ is written χριστος. We pronounce it as "K" but it is actually a gutteral, throat clearing sound.I agree. My wife and I use the abbreviation "Cmas."
People here almost never say "Happy Christmas." Sometimes I do, just to be different, and they look at me like, "what?"
What's not to like is that it's completely unbiblical and as dangerously misleading as a doctrine could possibly be. To accept it you would have to believe that either (1) Jesus had no clue what He was talking about (a bit of a problem, I would think) or (2) the Jesus of the Gospels, the only Jesus we actually have, is basically a fraud created by the NT authors in furtherance of some hidden agenda (hmmm ... a bit of a problem as well, it seems to me).
Christianity is what it is. It's either true or it isn't. If we don't like it, the solution is to find a different religion. Reinventing it isn't one of the options.
Why would I believe that? I do believe the position I articulated is indisputably the correct Christian position, for the reasons I stated. A universalist either has to believe the Jesus of the Gospels was clueless, a liar or an invention of the NT authors. I don't believe any recognizable version of Christianity can accommodate any of those alternatives.Do you believe you speak for all Christians?
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