Christian Friend

[Ukrainia]

Hey guys

I have a great Christian friend. She's extremely involved in spreading her faith and is altogether a great role model.

She does seem to ever so slightly be slipping away from being a WELS Lutheran however. Her reasoning is that it's arrogant for a little church body to claim the perfect truth and to know everything about God. She also likes what Campus Crusade can offer in terms of fellowship, and friends. She thinks that they can offer her more in terms of getting to know God on a personal level and that she was missing this closeness growing up in the WELS.

I think I had previously frusterated her enough, so I decided to once more try to explain why I think being a Lutheran is a good thing. I thought I did a decent job of getting my point accross. I tried to be pro-Lutheran and not anti-Campus Crusades. Hopefully I achieved it. Here is what I sent her.

".....If I can add one thing, I think there is a chance that in some areas Lutherans have it wrong and I love that your journey has led to you to challenge yourself and grow in your faith.

However, I like to think of the Lutheran position as a source of strength. Any member of a confessional Lutheran church, can go to his or her pastor knowing that their pastor has the answer. Many Lutheran pastors (my uncle for one, and probably many more) know their Bible inside and out not just in English but in the original languages and maybe German too. It’s a source of strength that Lutherans have what I consider to be not arrogance but confidence in their interpretation of the Bible. And it’s not something that began with the WELS but is a product of the reformation when general public first had the opportunity to read their Bibles. Even then their were a lot of opinions about what God really meant, but Lutheran theologians didn’t want lay people to sway in the wind with every new fad. The Book of Concord was created in 1580 with painstaking detail to make sure it was Biblically sound. And I think it’s a tribute to Lutherans, that they haven’t decided to add or subtract anything from it. God doesn’t change and niether does Lutheran doctrine.

I also thought it was really interesting you mentioned the depth and complexity of God. I agree that we know so little about God. I liked your wording; we are merely sinners and destined for a life of having more ignorance than anything when compard to God. Honestly, I think Lutherans are so humble - or should be - when it comes to this. There are so many ways people try to find God. Lutherans, for the most part, can look at themselves and realize they don’t know much. And instead of trying to glean insight from the world’s ideas they limit themselves to two things: Word and sacrament. I would say, and I think a lot of pastors would concor that we know next to nothing about what God is like. But sometimes the simple things are all you need to know. God is loving, eternal and all-powerful. That’s a great combination and if that’s all that I really know about God while on this earth, I’m not in a rush. Why rush and join the people who are always wondering. As much as I love to explore, I’m not terribly worried that there is so much that is missing from my faith. If a childlike faith is the type of faith that Jesus commends, I think that is the kind of faith I want too. We don’t have to seek out God; He has already come to us! Really when it comes down to it Lutherans focus on one thing; God loves us so much everything has already been done for us. Jesus died and rose, and therin lies my peace and happiness.

All this said, I love where you’re going with your life. You’re such a success already and that includes being a great Christian who takes so many opportunities to spread her faith. I love that about you - I just don’t want you to be so down on Lutherans (and I‘ll admit and am so glad that many non-Lutherans believe similar things)...."

I thought it was clear. I don't see how she could be offended in any way. I just wish I had fixed the typos before I sent it to her. Any thoughts?

 

[dinkime]

i like how you worded it -- you made clear how the focus is the Word and sacrament, not on us, which is the key aspect of Lutheran doctrine

i hope and pray what you say can make a difference, and help her to see what the "reality" is of some of the different groups out there

 

[BigNorsk]

Your friend may have never thought about it. If it's arrogant to think you are corrrect, wouldn't that make Campus Crusade arrogant, wouldn't everyone be arrogant.

I would think arrogant would be if you said that as the one true church there was salvation only through you. That, I would agree would be arrogant. But to say one has the truth, I don't see it as arrogance.

I would point out to her too that Campus Crusade is very sloppy in their theology. I would think that she would recognize that.

I kind of use an illustration sometimes on the importance of law and gospel that is actually modelled after Campus Crusade.

It goes like this. You find a person terrified, really terrified that he is a sinner and deserves to go to hell. You tell him. Would you like to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ? He says sure. You say you are a sinner condemned separated from God condemned to an eternity in hell. It's too much, the person runs.

If you simply could distinguish law from gospel. You wouldn't even use law on such a person, they are already prepared.

That said, what could be gained from Campus Crusade is a get out there and make disciples attitude.

Marv

 

[RadMan]

Very insightful and a great email Ukrainia.

That's is CCC's slock. Having a "personal" relation with God or Jesus. As if both were someone were within the realm of our understanding our we could be like the Trinity. Never could figure that out. Our flesh is so sinful so we couldn't even began to know what perfectness is.

Campus Crusade came out of the Jesus Freaks in the late 60's and is all about "me" and my personal relationship with God. Very self centered. They somehow feel that if they know Him and keep his commands that they can be like Him. Works oriented like the reformed and Jewish sects.

It's hard to talk to people that have this "feel good" philosophy because emotions rule more than facts. Their isn't any group that has as much fun as Lutherans. CCC's have too many "worries" about doing things right and correct. That's why they are so close to the Jewish sects who are Law oriented. They don't really know of God's grace and mercy.

 

[seajoy]

Great posts from Marv, Rad, and Becky.

May your friend hear what you have said, U.

 

[LilLamb219]

What you wrote is great. It's easy to see why your friend is drawn to the theology of glory that the CC promotes! Why look to the cross when I can look to myself...me, me, me?

Keep pointing your friend back to the cross as you are doing. Maybe ask your friend what exactly the Lutherans have wrong in doctrine and then show biblically how we are indeed correct. God doesn't want us to be ignorant about Him and the salvation He has won for us. There are things He doesn't tell us, but as for our salvation, there is no question at all....

 

[LutheranChick]

It sounded great, Ukrainia! Loving and instructional. Prayers for your friend.

I have heard that accusation of 'arrogance' before. It is sad, because we don't think we have all the answers - we freely admit that we cannot possibly understand every aspect of God and the Bible. We believe the plain simple words of the Bible, and for the parts that are more difficult to understand, we look back to the clear Scriptures for understanding. The parts that we simply cannot explain, we leave to God. When God is silent on matters - we say- we do not know.

I think it is more arrogant to think say that "Oh, this is what God REALLY meant when he said that...."

 

[Breetai]

To be honest, I think that the WELS is too much gospel and not enough law...

...or did I mix that up?

 

[Breetai]

double post