Christian Atheism

[Iosias]

Helpful stuff from the BBC:

Non-realism (Christian Atheism)

Christian Atheists want to remove what they see as the fairy tale elements of Christianity.

They prefer to call this a non-realistic version of Christianity, rather than Christian atheism. They say that they do believe in God - but not in a fairy tale way.

To do this requires great intellectual sophistication, as you can see from the outline of non-realistic Christianity below.

Essentials of non-realistic Christianity

Religion is about internal spiritual experiences, and that is all.

There is no world other than the material world around us.

There are no beings other than the living organisms on this planet or elsewhere in the universe.

There is no objective being or thing called God that exists separately from the person believing in him.

There is no 'ultimate reality' outside human minds either.

We give our own lives meaning and purpose; there is nothing outside us that does it for us.

God is a projection of the human mind.

"God" is the way human beings put 'spiritual' ideals into a poetic form that they are able to use and work with.

"God" is simply a word that stands for our highest ideals.

God-talk is a language tool that enables us to talk about our highest ideals and create meaning in our lives.

Religious stories and texts are ways in which human beings set down and work out spiritual, ethical, and fundamental meanings in life.

Our religious talk is really about us and our inner selves, and the community and culture we live in.

Religious language enables us to do something unique.

Religious talk uses the familiar language of things that exist outside ourselves to make it easier for us to handle complex and subtle ideas.

Faith therefore isn't belief in a God that exists outside minds.

Faith is what human beings do when they pursue 'spiritual' ideals.

Saying that someone follows a particular faith is a way of talking about their attitudes to life and to other people.

BBC - Religion - Atheism: Types - Christian Atheism

 

[RDKirk]

Helpful stuff from the BBC:


BBC - Religion - Atheism: Types - Christian Atheism

So what's "Christian" about it? The basic philosophical platitudes of Christ are not unique to Him.

 

[Eudaimonist]

What would people like to discuss about Christian atheism? Is anyone here a Christian atheist?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Stone Butterfly]

I can not help but wonder why these particular atheists are so desperate to create a religious belief system.

 

[Iosias]

I can not help but wonder why these particular atheists are so desperate to create a religious belief system.

In reality, it is a movement made up of those who held to the Christian faith but who have found traditional theistic Christianity too hard to believe in. In the words of Arnold:

The Sea of Faith
Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furl'd.
But now I only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
Retreating, to the breath
Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles of the world.​

 

[Paradoxum]

I don't understand why atheists would use the word 'God' if they don't believe in a 'being' called God.

It seems unnecessarily vague and magical. Why not simply talk about highest values?

 

[Stone Butterfly]

I don't understand why atheists would use the word 'God' if they don't believe in a 'being' called God.

It seems unnecessarily vague and magical. Why not simply talk about highest values?

Agreed.

In reality, it is a movement made up of those who held to the Christian faith but who have found traditional theistic Christianity too hard to believe in. In the words of Arnold:

The Sea of Faith
Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furl'd.
But now I only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
Retreating, to the breath
Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles of the world.​

However the entire embodiment of the Christ was that he was God in the flesh and come to lead the world to righteousness.

Removing God from the equation simply reforms Jesus into the likes of a Yogi and Christianity itself is no longer part of the equation because the foundation for that what is called Christianity is removed at the spirit level.

 

[bhsmte]

I haven't read the attachments, but I am assuming when you attach the word; "christian" to anything, it would mean you have a belief in a personal God. For that reason, I don't see how you can intermingle the terms; atheist, with christian and make any sense of it.

 

[TheBeardedDude]

It sounds like former christians who are now atheist, trying to reconcile the good moral teachings they once believed with their current beliefs.

Basically, they are looking for a way of maintaining the social nature of religion while omitting the religion.

 

[poolerboy0077]

I am a Star Wars Atheist. While I do not believe in the Force as real I do enjoy the movies.


^This is what that sounds like.

 

[TheBeardedDude]

I am a Star Wars Atheist. While I do not believe in the Force as real I do enjoy the movies.


^This is what that sounds like.

That is both a fantastic way of describing it, and the way I may forever describe myself from now on.

Although I may switch back and forth between Star Wars and Star Trek (although there is no force or religion in Star Trek as Gene Roddenberry was an atheist...)

 

[RDKirk]

I am a Star Wars Atheist. While I do not believe in the Force as real I do enjoy the movies.


^This is what that sounds like.

Well, there really are people who have adopted the "Jedi code" as their actual moral standard of living. Presuming those people do, indeed, realize Star Was is fictitious, then I think the analogy is accurate.

 

[prov1810]

Christian Atheists want to remove what they see as the fairy tale elements of Christianity.

Between "I'm atheist" and "I'm a theist" lies Aristotle's excluded middle, a kingdom of faeries and married bachelors.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I don't understand why atheists would use the word 'God' if they don't believe in a 'being' called God.

It seems unnecessarily vague and magical. Why not simply talk about highest values?

In a left-brained way, it is unnecessarily vague and magical.

In a right-brained way, it helps to put a "face" on one's highest values, perhaps because it makes them easier to relate to. It concretizes an abstraction.

"God" is the way human beings put 'spiritual' ideals into a poetic form that they are able to use and work with.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Paradoxum]

In a left-brained way, it is unnecessarily vague and magical.

In a right-brained way, it helps to put a "face" on one's highest values, perhaps because it makes them easier to relate to. It concretizes an abstraction.

"God" is the way human beings put 'spiritual' ideals into a poetic form that they are able to use and work with.


eudaimonia,

Mark

But the values aren't concrete and it is simply false to think of them as such. I doubt such God talk is merely a poetic expression of one's values, but rather the talk changes how you think about the values.

There is no face to values, and consistently lying to yourself about that may even up changing your values, potentially for the worse.

If there is no God, then talking as if there is a God may end up corrupting your morals and worldview, because they are based on a false way of thinking.

If you say you believe in God (poetically) then you are using the poetic as the primary means of talking about and understanding the world. I think that is problematic. Our primary way of understanding the world should be evidence and reason, with poetics then used secondary to give greater meaning and emphasis. The head should be used first to guide the heart, rather than the heart used first to influence the mind.

'We are stardust' is true and poetic. 'God is real' is poetic and false/unjustifiable. That's how it seems to me anyway.

 

[Iosias]

It sounds like former christians who are now atheist, trying to reconcile the good moral teachings they once believed with their current beliefs.

I suppose they're trying to reconcile non-realism with their religious experience.

 

[TheBeardedDude]

I suppose they're trying to reconcile non-realism with their religious experience.

"Non-realism"? I don't understand what you mean. Please explain.

 

[Eudaimonist]

But the values aren't concrete and it is simply false to think of them as such.

I'm not saying that abstractions themselves become concrete, but that abstractions (valid ones) relate to concretes by describing them in some way. Values in particular are concretized in the actions of intending persons. By writing a story about a character who engages in heroism (e.g., Sir Galahad), one concretizes heroism, making the abstract concept "heroism" easier to understand than by reading a philosophical essay.

I doubt such God talk is merely a poetic expression of one's values, but rather the talk changes how you think about the values.

I think that God talk can be a poetic expression of one's values, although clearly many people don't see God in that way.

If there is no God, then talking as if there is a God may end up corrupting your morals and worldview, because they are based on a false way of thinking.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure that's inevitable.

If you say you believe in God (poetically) then you are using the poetic as the primary means of talking about and understanding the world.

Well, no, you aren't. You are using poetry as the poetic means of talking about and understanding the world. It doesn't have to replace science or philosophy.

Our primary way of understanding the world should be evidence and reason, with poetics then used secondary to give greater meaning and emphasis. The head should be used first to guide the heart, rather than the heart used first to influence the mind.

I agree with you about the head leading the heart, but I don't see how they are doing anything to upset those roles.

'We are stardust' is true and poetic. 'God is real' is poetic and false/unjustifiable.

They aren't saying that "God is real" in a metaphysical sense.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Ianus]

"Non-realism"?

Non-realism is a denial of an objective reality that we can know perfectly (naive realism) or that we can know critically (critical realism). What this means in religious discourse is that there is no transcendent being or reality to which religious languages and practices refer - the source of religious meaning and value lies in human beings.

 

[TheBeardedDude]

Non-realism is a denial of an objective reality that we can know perfectly (naive realism) or that we can know critically (critical realism). What this means in religious discourse is that there is no transcendent being or reality to which religious languages and practices refer - the source of religious meaning and value lies in human beings.

But I am not sure that this is what was meant when he said that. Which is why I am asking him to clarify.

Thanks for the response though