Christ set us free?

[notinvain]

What did Christ set us free from?

 

[frumanchu]

"Us" who? "Us" believers? "Us" human beings?

Not trying to be evasive, just trying to see what direction you're approaching this question from.

 

[armothe]

What did Christ set us free from?

The bondage and veil of sin which seperates us from God.

-A

 

[james1]

"If the Son therefore shall MAKE you free, ye shall be free indeed."



​

This verse has nothing to do with free will. But it certainly does have to do with freedom. But freedom from what? From what is it that Jesus frees us? Why free from what we were in bondage to before He freed us, of course.

"Because the creature itself also shall be delivered [freed] from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" (Rom. 8:21).



​

The whole creation will be delivered from this bondage one day. But until then, only those destined to become the manifest sons of God receive this deliverance.


Here is the same thought in slightly different words:

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free [here is this ‘cause and effect’ thing again] from the law of sin and death" (Rom. 8:2).



​

No one can "freely" change his will from hating and disobeying God on one day to loving and obeying God on the next. No, it takes a supernatural miracle from God to accomplish this. God must Personally remove and free [here is the cause] us from being under the "Law of sin and death" to being under the "Law of the Spirit of life in Christ."


Does man accomplish this by his own will?. Jesus says that He "frees us," so how can we say that we freely free ourselves?

ONLY GOD DELIVERS FROM BONDAGE​

So we read in Romans 8 that the whole creation was subjected to corruption and in bondage. Man possesses no such power as freedom of the will by which he can free himself from such bondage. It takes the Spirit of God to even give someone the desire to come out of bondage. People foolishly believe that when they hit bottom in life that they can then "free-will" themselves into turning to God. No one turns to God by his own will. It is God Who is already at work in a person’s life before they ever feel the need to turn to God.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Death

 

[reformedfan]

the penalty of sin

 

[DrBubbaLove]

which is death

 

[hraedisc]

Christ sets the believer free from the inability to obey God's law.

John 8
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Romans 6
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2 Peter 2:19
19... for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Christ sets the believer free from the inability to obey God's law.

But that implies or could be seen as saying believers do not sin, which is not true. It also implies that non-believers always sin or are incapabale of doing anything but sinning, which is also not true.

 

[hraedisc]

But that implies or could be seen as saying believers do not sin, which is not true...

"Believers" who abide in Christ as it says in John 15:4, constantly (that's the condition), are enabled to:

walk after the spirit as it says in Romans 8:4,
partake of divine nature as it says in 2 Peter 1:4,
keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus as it says in Revelation 14:12,
keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight as it says in 1 John 3:22.

...It also implies that non-believers always sin or are incapabale of doing anything but sinning, which is also not true.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him (God)

Romans 8:6-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Well I agree that someone who does not "abide" in Christ can be lost, cut off, but was just looking on verification of what you meant by saying we are free from sin. To me those verses regarding our "freedom" is in regards to having the ability to avoid the punishment of sin (death) because of what Jesus did. You seem to have a different view of what we are free from.

In response to my post, you now switch to "pleasing" God, to which I must say that a good thing or act would be pleasing to God whether a non-believer or believer performed the good thing.

The question was whether you thought non-believers were able to do anything besides sin. Your answer switched to "pleasing" God instead of staying focused on sin.

Happy to talk about both, but it would be helpful to stick to one thing at a time and make sure we understand what the other is saying before we proceed to another topic. Unless that is you just do not care if you are understood or could care less if you understand me. In which case this is pointless.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Christ set us free?

What did Christ set us free from?

He set us free from the bondage to sin.



John 8:32. and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

33. They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?"

34. Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

35. "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

36. "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. (NASB, 1995)



Compare the following verses from the KJV:



Matt. 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.



John 1:29 On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!



Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Servant, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.



Acts 5:31 Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins.



Eph. 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Eph. 5:26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word,

Eph. 5:27 that he might present the church to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.



Col. 1:20 and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.

Col. 1:21 And you, being in time past alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil works,

Col. 1:22 yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him:

Col. 1:23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister.



Titus 2:11 For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus. 2:12 instructing us, to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and godly in this present world;

Titus. 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Titus. 2:14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a people for his own possession, zealous of good works.



Heb. 7:25 Wherefore also he is able to save to the uttermost them that draw near unto God through him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Heb. 7:26 For such a high priest became us, holy, guileless, undefiled, separated from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Heb. 7:27 who needeth not daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people: for this he did once for all, when he offered up himself.

Heb. 7:28 For the law appointeth men high priests, having infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was after the law, appointeth a Son, perfected for evermore.



1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.



1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:



1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 2:5 but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him:

1 John 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.



1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin.



Rev. 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood;





Matt. 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

He set us free from the bondage to sin.

You quoted a lot of text, but did not explain what you understood bondage to mean. Do you think Christians then no longer have the tendency to sin within themselves?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

You quoted a lot of text, but did not explain what you understood bondage to mean. Do you think Christians then no longer have the tendency to sin within themselves?

Yes. Christians are certainly tempted to sin, and many do sin, but the tendency for a Christian is to be obedient to God.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I think we still have the same tendency to sin as non-Christians. The difference is that we are given Grace to help us resist. We still have to resist. Paul indicated he struggled, that he did the very things he did not want to do.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Dear Reader,



Please allow me to preface this post with a few introductory remarks. I have very carefully studied literally hundreds of writings on Rom. 7:14-25, and I have in my personal library 233 commentaries on Romans, another 50 volumes on Paul and his theology, and 127 additional volumes of commentaries on the other epistles of Paul. Therefore I am quite familiar with the various hermeneutical schemes applied to Romans and the consequences of each of them to the interpretation of Rom. 7:14-25. And, of course, I am also quite familiar with the impact that one’s theology of the atonement of Christ has on one’s interpretation of this same passage of scripture. And thirdly, I am quite familiar with the correlation that exists between one’s personal experience with sin and one’s interpretation of the Biblical doctrine of hamartiology.



Therefore, since most of the Christians who are active in theological debates have some sort of an established biblical hermeneutic, and a fairly well developed theology of the atonement of Christ, and a well established experience with sin, it is very unlikely that anything that I might post in this forum, however learned, regarding Rom. 7:14-25 will seriously alter their interpretation of that said passage of scripture. However, there is perhaps the slight possibility that some dear and hungry soul may come along and be helped from the bonds of sin through a better understanding of the word of God, and therefore I shall give an answer to your question and offer proof from the scriptures that my answer is the correct answer.



The “I” in Rom. 7:14-25 is none other than the man who has been “sold into bondage to sin.”



Romans 7:

14. For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

15. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

16. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do,I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

17. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

18. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

19. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

20. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

22. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

23. but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

24. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

25. Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.



Most unfortunately, Rom. 7:14-25 is very often studied out of the context to which it belongs. In fact, it immediately follows vv 5-13:



5. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

6. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7. What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

8. But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

9. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;

10. and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;

11. for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

12. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13. Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.



Notice especially verse 8, “But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.” And notice verse 12, “So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.” How is it that the very Law that is “holy and righteous and good” could have a part in producing “coveting of every kind?” The answer is that mankind, apart from the atonement of Christ and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, is “of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.”



14. For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.



The point of verse 14 is not that Paul and every blood-bought Christian is sold into bondage to sin—the point of verse 14 is that the Law is spiritual, but the natural man is NOT spiritual, but “of flesh.” As “holy and righteous and good” the Law is, when applied to the natural man, the man “of flesh,” sin rather than righteousness is the result.



In Rom. 6:1 – 7:4 Paul illustrates the fact that the true believer in Christ has identified with His death and resurrection in baptism and is therefore dead to both the Law and to sin. This true believer does not struggle to keep the Law, for he had died to the Law; he does not struggle against sin because he has, by faith, died to sin.



Rom. 6:22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.



Rom. 8:1. Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

3. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

4. so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.



(All scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Well I never went to Princeton, and certainly do not have the benefit of a library containing 233 commentaries on Romans. Impressive. Your house must be huge too! Good for you!

Call me stupid if you like, but even as a Baptist my thought was (and still is) that Paul is speaking about having a personal relationship with God rather than trying to live a life by a law we cannot possible live up to. We can’t live up to that Law BECAUSE of ALL of OUR tendency to sin. It is that burden of the law that creates bondage to sin when trying to live that law.

In that sense we are free from that burden of trying to live up to the law because of the Grace made possible by Christ, which we can get by asking for it. God’s Grace does break that bondage to sin created by the Law, and can make us Holy. But most of us still continue to sin the rest of our lives because that tendency is still a part of our fallen nature. That is why most of believe we get NEW bodies later, one that does not have this fallen nature. So in our view, we continuously need that Grace applied.


Except for the tendency to sin part (that this part of Romans has nothing to do with IMO BTW), somehow think we agree on the freedom from the law part and bondage to sin. That is however a different thing from saying we are free from sin.

 

[majorgen]

Hi everyone - I just want to introduce my thoughts to you in a simple way. God's love is so powerful and pure and He is also patient. He knows us in every detail and how and when and if we are going to respond to Him. So He keeps on reaching out to us, but some of us don't get it or don't want it, but His love will endure forever and through the death of His Son Jesus was the greatest example. It was the perfect sacrifice for everyone to be able to be forgiven and draw nearer to God in our hearts and lives. I wrote this poem and I hope it doesn't offend anyone. If it does, forgive me, and if you read it I hope you can relate to it.

I'm Forgiven​

It was Your love for me
When I knew You not,
That You shed Your blood
To set me free.
It was Your love for me
That drew me near,
To a Savior's heart
Who died for me.

For I did not realize
Nor understood
Why You sacrificed
Your life for all.
But not until
Your love touched me,
That Your presence
Revealed my sinful fall.

Oh Savior for the world
Please forgive me,
And let Your precious blood
Cleanse my sinful heart.
That I may know,
Love and serve Thee
And tell others
Who Thou art.

I'm forgiven!
And through Your death
Your love and grace saved me.
And now in my joy,
I've come
To worship and praise Thee.

I'm forgiven!
Cleansed by Your blood.
My debt, You paid in full.
For this was
The perfect sacrifice,
And now I'm forever grateful.

Yes, I'm forgiven
And I know You love me too,
For on that day
You reached out to me
Even before I knew You.

And when You came
Into my heart,
You revealed
Many things to me.
But there's one thing
I now know, dear Savior,
It's for me to love
And forgive others - freely.


CEE - SEPTEMBER 2002 written
NOW - May 20, 2005​