Christ in heaven

[Osage Bluestem]

I heard KR say in one of his lectures that if anyone says they have seen Christ the answer to that is "no you haven't because he must remain in heaven"

How does that fit with Paul's experience on the road to Damascus?

 

[Iosias]

In what sense is KR taking one having seen Jesus? I suppose he could argue that in the early apostolic period visionary experiences existed, but being a cessationist (assuming he is one) those experiences are not normative for today?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

In what sense is KR taking one having seen Jesus? I suppose he could argue that in the early apostolic period visionary experiences existed, but being a cessationist (assuming he is one) those experiences are not normative for today?

He was talking about those who claim to see post ascension appearances of Christ. He uses this passage:

Acts 3:19-21 ESV
19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,
20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,
21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

He especially uses verse 21 as proof text that Christ must remain in heaven until his second advent.

 

[JM]

I'm just happy to see others struggling over the text. It is a good thing to wrestle with the word of God.

 

[Iosias]

He was talking about those who claim to see post ascension appearances of Christ. He uses this passage:

Acts 3:19-21 ESV
19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,
20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,
21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

He especially uses verse 21 as proof text that Christ must remain in heaven until his second advent.

The topic is perhaps more complex than at first seems; whilst Paul did not experience a physical post-ascension appearance of Christ (it being a visionary experience), the suggestion that the story of the Transfiguration is a misplaced account of a resurrection appearance ought be taken seriously.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

the suggestion that the story of the Transfiguration is a misplaced account of a resurrection appearance ought be taken seriously.

I didn't see anyone suggest that.

 

[JM]

I didn't see anyone suggest that.

No, no one mentioned any doubt about misplacing the transfiguration passage...but why miss the chance to cause doubt?

You ask a good question Osage. Commentators are split on if it was a bodily appearance or vision. I think Paul's commission was special and his calling unique. Do you recall what portion of Acts 1 he referenced, how he quoted it and why KB said it meant no one could see Jesus again until the second coming?

Yours in the Lord,

j

 

[Osage Bluestem]

No, no one mentioned any doubt about misplacing the transfiguration passage...but why miss the chance to cause doubt?

You ask a good question Osage. Commentators are split on if it was a bodily appearance or vision. I think Paul's commission was special and his calling unique. Do you recall what portion of Acts 1 he referenced, how he quoted it and why KB said it meant no one could see Jesus again until the second coming?

Yours in the Lord,

j

Check out post 3.

I wish I could remember which mp3 he said it on. I know it's somewhere between minutes 7 and 10 as I reversed it to hear what he said again.

 

[twin1954]

Paul actually saw many things that we aren't able to see now. 1Cor. 12:2-7

As far as visions of Christ are concerned if you see a vision of Christ you better be very fearful. It ain't Christ you see. Christ appears in His Gospel not in the eye of flesh. In fact every time a man saw Christ, either in a pre-incarnate vision or an after assension vision, he fell down as dead. We see Christ with the eye of faith not with eye of our depraved minds.


Additional comments:
I think it is very dangerous to build doctrine from a single passage of Scripture. Did KR use just this one as in proof-texting or did he use others as well to show from Scriptures his view that Christ must remain in Heaven? The simple fact is that Christ is God and as such we have no idea what He is able to do or how. I do know that He is with me every moment of my life though I can't see Him with these physical eyes. How I can't explain but I know that He is.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Paul actually saw many things that we aren't able to see now. 1Cor. 12:2-7

As far as visions of Christ are concerned if you see a vision of Christ you better be very fearful. It ain't Christ you see. Christ appears in His Gospel not in the eye of flesh. In fact every time a man saw Christ, either in a pre-incarnate vision or an after assension vision, he fell down as dead. We see Christ with the eye of faith not with eye of our depraved minds.

Additional comments:
I think it is very dangerous to build doctrine from a single passage of Scripture. Did KR use just this one as in proof-texting or did he use others as well to show from Scriptures his view that Christ must remain in Heaven? The simple fact is that Christ is God and as such we have no idea what He is able to do or how. I do know that He is with me every moment of my life though I can't see Him with these physical eyes. How I can't explain but I know that He is.

He used it as proof texting.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

There's many nutjobs in the Pentecostal/WOF circles that claim they met Christ.