Chrisitian right/left

[christdiedforus]

I keep hearing this being stated and recently someone started a thread here commenting on the lunacy of the Christian right. Honestly I don't know what they are talking about. Christian right or left what in the heck does any of that mean? Any of us, all of us we are either Christian or we are not there is no division in Christs body. So what are people talking about when they make statements that divide the indivisible truth?

 

[green wolverine]

Over the years I've come to realize that a lot of people equate the gospel with the political platform of their chosen party which it's not. The right claims to be pro-life, but has no compassion on those who need various types of assistance. The left claims to care for the poor but views unborn babies as worthwhile only if the mother wants them, otherwise their death is perfectly acceptable. Both sides have some good and lots of bad in them which is why I don't subscribe to political parties.

 

[Resha Caner]

There are issues that the Bible speaks to, and it would be nice if Christians were unified in those areas. It is sad that we are not, but there is sin in the world.

Then, there are issues the Bible does not speak to, and Christians are allowed to differ (Romans 14). IMO, that includes issues like health care. One view might say that an employer should help his employees organize to obtain the best, most cost-effective health care plan. Another might say that is implicitly part of an employee's salary so that he has the freedom to choose the plan as he thinks best. These differing views could be labeled as "left" and "right."

 

[ProdiGirl]

I'm not sure that it refers to a political view in everyone's mind.
To me it tends to mean which way they lean socially and spiritually. Conservative -traditional or liberal -non traditional or orthodox.

It can carry a few meanings I think.

 

[1watchman]

I keep hearing this being stated and recently someone started a thread here commenting on the lunacy of the Christian right. Honestly I don't know what they are talking about. Christian right or left what in the heck does any of that mean? Any of us, all of us we are either Christian or we are not there is no division in Christs body. So what are people talking about when they make statements that divide the indivisible truth?

You are right! One is either a Christian or not, but of those who are truly in Christ there are also carnal ideas that things should be as pleases the flesh --that is, political, ecumenical, entertaining, rigid rules, etc. One should be sure their church fellowship is fully scriptural, non-sectarian, and without man's innovations and ideas; and there is love and devotion to Christ and each the other. We should not be dividing the truth and the fellowship of "the one body in Christ" (Rom. 12; 1 Cor.12; and Eph. 4; etc.).

- 1 Watchman

 

[desmalia]

Over the years I've come to realize that a lot of people equate the gospel with the political platform of their chosen party which it's not. The right claims to be pro-life, but has no compassion on those who need various types of assistance. The left claims to care for the poor but views unborn babies as worthwhile only if the mother wants them, otherwise their death is perfectly acceptable. Both sides have some good and lots of bad in them which is why I don't subscribe to political parties.

I disagree that people on the right have no compassion on those who need various types of assistance. I think more accurately we'd rather have the financial freedom to take part in helping those in need instead of having the government use high taxes for "programs" designed to help some of them. Other than that, I think we pretty much agree.

 

[BondiHarry]

Over the years I've come to realize that a lot of people equate the gospel with the political platform of their chosen party which it's not.

True but Christians can analyze what people stand for and compare that to what the gospel of Jesus Christ says and determine who is closer to what Jesus called for.

The right claims to be pro-life

We are.

but has no compassion on those who need various types of assistance

Not true at all. Conservatives give more of their time and money to help those in need than liberals do. And if one actually studies God's word on government and compassion we find that God tasks the individual and the church with caring for those in need and indeed tells His followers flat out "put NOT your trust in princes (ie government), nor in the son of man, in whom there is NO help" (Psalm 146:3). What God actually tells us that for the things we need we should "look first to the kingdom of God and His righteousness" and they will be added to us. So what do we do? Look to the kingdom of God and His righteousness? NO, we defy God and make government something He never intended and have government care for those in need and as a result we have minimum wage laws, Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement programs, welfare programs etc. What has been the effect of these programs? The entitlement programs are bankrupting the nation, the welfare programs robbed people of initiative and led many to generational poverty, the minimum wage laws price many of those who have little if any work experience or job skills out of the job market in many areas ... in short, by dismissing God's wisdom and embracing man's wisdom we are setting ourselves up for disaster.

The left claims to care for the poor

A holllow claim since the evidence coming in on how their policies impact the poor shows that in many cases the poor are harmed but leftists refuse to accept that evidence and continue pursuing their failed policies.

but views unborn babies as worthwhile only if the mother wants them, otherwise their death is perfectly acceptable.

Which is deplorable.

Both sides have some good and lots of bad in them which is why I don't subscribe to political parties.

Neither of the major parties seem to look to God (particularly the Democrats) for their guidance and both do things that conflict with what God tells us to do. The left seems actively hostile to the liberty that God would have men enjoy and elements of the right err when they try to legislate morals for example (as Christians we should preach the gospel of Christ and condemn immorality but I personally found 1 Peter 4:15 and its admonition against being busybodys in other mens matters a stinging rebuke to those who would deprive certain types of sinners rights that God does grant them).

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I keep hearing this being stated and recently someone started a thread here commenting on the lunacy of the Christian right. Honestly I don't know what they are talking about. Christian right or left what in the heck does any of that mean? Any of us, all of us we are either Christian or we are not there is no division in Christs body. So what are people talking about when they make statements that divide the indivisible truth?

I think there is a lesson for all here. Liberals can learn to be more giving and those on the right (the far right really) can be less...loony.

 

[Torporeal]

I keep hearing this being stated and recently someone started a thread here commenting on the lunacy of the Christian right. Honestly I don't know what they are talking about. Christian right or left what in the heck does any of that mean? Any of us, all of us we are either Christian or we are not there is no division in Christs body. So what are people talking about when they make statements that divide the indivisible truth?

Someone commenting on the "lunacy of the Christian right?" That says a lot right there; I'm sure the non-lunacy of the commentor stood without question?

As a body, we've an affinity for dividing for the merest of reasons - and we have since before the church began (e.g. Lk 22:24f; I Cor 1:10ff, etc.).

But politics is something different entirely. There's a wholesale dividing occurring on a global scale right now that appears securlar yet really isn't - knowing as we do that nothing which occurs here on earth is truly "secular." And the ideology behind this dividing is either drawing Christians to it or repelling them away - with the former tending to view the latter as... well, loons.

 

[BondiHarry]

I think there is a lesson for all here. Liberals can learn to be more giving and those on the right (the far right really) can be less...loony.

Loony? WWC, do enlighten us on what you mean by loony.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Loony? WWC, do enlighten us on what you mean by loony.

Ask the OP. I was framing my answer deliberately using his wording. I loosely translated "lunacy" into "loony" so I did take a slight liberty.

My message was that each side can learn from the other. The far ends of most ideologies to me are loony if that helps. So in that context, I would say loony would just be behaving in a manner that seems out of touch with everyday reality.

 

[BondiHarry]

Ask the OP. I was framing my answer deliberately using his wording. I loosely translated "lunacy" into "loony" so I did take a slight liberty.

My message was that each side can learn from the other. The far ends of most ideologies to me are loony if that helps. So in that context, I would say loony would just be behaving in a manner that seems out of touch with everyday reality.

What can I learn from statists in general and the American left in particular? How to end the life of a baby? How to take the bread of another's man labor? How to make an idol of government? How to bankrupt a state and even a nation? How to encourage sloth and punish success? How to place the carnal wisdom of men above the life giving word of God? I see nothing coming from the left worth learning.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

What can I learn from statists in general and the American left in particular? How to end the life of a baby? How to take the bread of another's man labor? How to make an idol of government? How to bankrupt a state and even a nation? How to encourage sloth and punish success? How to place the carnal wisdom of men above the life giving word of God? I see nothing coming from the left worth learning.

It is this type attitude that keeps us where we are now. Divided.

I'm truly sorry so many people share that attitude. I don't mean that as an insult, it's how I really feel.

For me personally, I always feel I can learn something from an opposing viewpoint no matter where it comes from. Doesn't mean I conform to it or endorse it's ugly side. Just that I can find something in it that is beneficial and adapt it to my collective knowledge and wisdom.

Honestly, I could take most of the questions you post here and direct them against the right. Carnal wisdom...how many Republican politicians get busted for sex scandals? Bankrupt a nation...how was that not done under a Republican run government?

I will grant you the one about abortion. That is one I wish the left would see some sense on.

 

[BondiHarry]

It is this type attitude that keeps us where we are now. Divided.

I'm truly sorry so many people share that attitude. I don't mean that as an insult, it's how I really feel.

I appreciate that no one has all the right answers and in many cases we learn and grow by dealing with others who don't have the same experiences we have and see things differently from how we do. However I do expect people to see what works and what doesn't work and I see the left as being so wedded to ideology that no matter how badly their policies fail they will not change them.

For me personally, I always feel I can learn something from an opposing viewpoint no matter where it comes from. Doesn't mean I conform to it or endorse it's ugly side. Just that I can find something in it that is beneficial and adapt it to my collective knowledge and wisdom.

I worked as a Navy instructor for three years teaching enlisted, warrant officers and commissioned officers and I quickly found that I was learning a great deal from my students by the questions they asked so I think batting ideas around is important and can quite often lead to better solutions than what we might have reached using only our own perspective so I agree with you here.

Honestly, I could take most of the questions you post here and direct them against the right. Carnal wisdom...how many Republican politicians get busted for sex scandals? Bankrupt a nation...how was that not done under a Republican run government?

So could I. One thing I would really like to see is for the moral busybodys to pay closer attention to what God tells us about treating our neighbors. I'm retired Navy and a devout Christian but I was rather shocked at the attitude so many Christians had about the end of the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. I've worked with homosexuals in the Navy and never had any problems with them. One special ops soldier in Afghanistan knew there was a homosexual in his team but as he said the guy was "big, tough and killed a lot of bad guys". I could see no purpose in making gays unwelcome when we already have enthusiastic boozers, fornicators and adulterers serving.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I appreciate that no one has all the right answers and in many cases we learn and grow by dealing with others who don't have the same experiences we have and see things differently from how we do. However I do expect people to see what works and what doesn't work and I see the left as being so wedded to ideology that no matter how badly their policies fail they will not change them.



I worked as a Navy instructor for three years teaching enlisted, warrant officers and commissioned officers and I quickly found that I was learning a great deal from my students by the questions they asked so I think batting ideas around is important and can quite often lead to better solutions than what we might have reached using only our own perspective so I agree with you here.



So could I. One thing I would really like to see is for the moral busybodys to pay closer attention to what God tells us about treating our neighbors. I'm retired Navy and a devout Christian but I was rather shocked at the attitude so many Christians had about the end of the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. I've worked with homosexuals in the Navy and never had any problems with them. One special ops soldier in Afghanistan knew there was a homosexual in his team but as he said the guy was "big, tough and killed a lot of bad guys". I could see no purpose in making gays unwelcome when we already have enthusiastic boozers, fornicators and adulterers serving.

I see people wedded to ideas on both ends of the spectrum. Your example about gays in the military is a good one that speaks to this. I mentioned the abortion issue before, but I also have to mention that some on the left don't support it so I am hopeful they don't have a lockstep mindset.

If nothing else you can learn what not to do from the left.


Thanks for the reply. I enjoyed reading it.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

"Christian Right" and "Christian Left" are political terms. In both of them, "Christian" serves as a descriptive adjective modifying a noun. They're legitimate and useful terms, but although I am a Christian who takes an interest in politics, I can't identify with either one.

As a Christian who is libertarian (i.e., consistently in favor of individual liberty, both in economics and in people's personal lives), I think "Christian Right" tendencies toward theonomy or at least dominionism are dead wrong, and so are attempts to make non-Christians behave morally like Christians through legislation. I also think "Christian Left" tendencies toward pacifism and income redistribution, or at least high taxes and big government, are dead wrong.

Sorry, but I say a plague on both their houses. And I'll add that while individual Christians may be political, and good citizenship may even require it, churches should not be except on matters that unite all Christians. If any church aligns itself with either the Christian Right or the Christian Left, I won't be able to join it, and if they do so after I'm a member, I'll have to leave.

 

[BondiHarry]

"Christian Right" and "Christian Left" are political terms. In both of them, "Christian" serves as a descriptive adjective modifying a noun. They're legitimate and useful terms, but although I am a Christian who takes an interest in politics, I can't identify with either one.

I look at it as 'Christian' being the noun and right and left being the adjectives although there really isn't right or left but right or wrong and where Christians are wrong in what they do, their error should be exposed by scripture in love and corrected (and those in error have to correct their own error, no one else can correct it for them).

As a Christian who is libertarian (i.e., consistently in favor of individual liberty, both in economics and in people's personal lives)

Which is what we should be doing if we are being faithful to do ALL that God commands us.

I think "Christian Right" tendencies toward theonomy or at least dominionism are dead wrong, and so are attempts to make non-Christians behave morally like Christians through legislation.

Agreed. I recognize that God's law is supreme and that all men are subject to it whether they recognize it or not but as Christians we must recognize that all the law is encompassed in loving God (and this is something that men must be left free to work out on their own since no one can 'love' God at the barrel of a gun and none will unless they are drawn by God to do so) and in loving our neighbor as ourselves. 1 Peter 4:15 is a passage that those who believe they must legislate private moral behavior should dwell on "But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters". Be the light of the world, preach the gospel (one of my favorite lines about this is: "preach the gospel and, if you must, use words" meaning we preach the gospel by how we live our lives ... to preach by word yet deny the gospel by our behavior is a hypocrisy that serves to drive men away from Christ).

I also think "Christian Left" tendencies toward pacifism and income redistribution, or at least high taxes and big government, are dead wrong.

And they are. The big government welfare state is not of God but is the result of man's carnal wisdom and simply proves that 'there is a way that seems right to a man but the end thereof is death'. It has a certain logic I suppose but in so many ways it harms the very people the left claims to want to help.

Sorry, but I say a plague on both their houses. And I'll add that while individual Christians may be political, and good citizenship may even require it, churches should not be except on matters that unite all Christians. If any church aligns itself with either the Christian Right or the Christian Left, I won't be able to join it, and if they do so after I'm a member, I'll have to leave.

If churches preached the fullness of the word of God, no Christian will need to be directed on how they should vote by their church and unfortunately there are churches that are NOT preaching the fullness of the word of God and use cherry picked scripture to lead their flock to support an agenda of men and not of God.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I look at it as 'Christian' being the noun and right and left being the adjectives although there really isn't right or left but right or wrong and where Christians are wrong in what they do, their error should be exposed by scripture in love and corrected (and those in error have to correct their own error, no one else can correct it for them).



Which is what we should be doing if we are being faithful to do ALL that God commands us.



Agreed. I recognize that God's law is supreme and that all men are subject to it whether they recognize it or not but as Christians we must recognize that all the law is encompassed in loving God (and this is something that men must be left free to work out on their own since no one can 'love' God at the barrel of a gun and none will unless they are drawn by God to do so) and in loving our neighbor as ourselves. 1 Peter 4:15 is a passage that those who believe they must legislate private moral behavior should dwell on "But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters". Be the light of the world, preach the gospel (one of my favorite lines about this is: "preach the gospel and, if you must, use words" meaning we preach the gospel by how we live our lives ... to preach by word yet deny the gospel by our behavior is a hypocrisy that serves to drive men away from Christ).



And they are. The big government welfare state is not of God but is the result of man's carnal wisdom and simply proves that 'there is a way that seems right to a man but the end thereof is death'. It has a certain logic I suppose but in so many ways it harms the very people the left claims to want to help.



If churches preached the fullness of the word of God, no Christian will need to be directed on how they should vote by their church and unfortunately there are churches that are NOT preaching the fullness of the word of God and use cherry picked scripture to lead their flock to support an agenda of men and not of God.

Cool! Sounds like we pretty much in full agreement then.

 

[christdiedforus]

"Christian Right" and "Christian Left" are political terms. In both of them, "Christian" serves as a descriptive adjective modifying a noun. They're legitimate and useful terms, but although I am a Christian who takes an interest in politics, I can't identify with either one.

As a Christian who is libertarian (i.e., consistently in favor of individual liberty, both in economics and in people's personal lives), I think "Christian Right" tendencies toward theonomy or at least dominionism are dead wrong, and so are attempts to make non-Christians behave morally like Christians through legislation. I also think "Christian Left" tendencies toward pacifism and income redistribution, or at least high taxes and big government, are dead wrong.

Sorry, but I say a plague on both their houses. And I'll add that while individual Christians may be political, and good citizenship may even require it, churches should not be except on matters that unite all Christians. If any church aligns itself with either the Christian Right or the Christian Left, I won't be able to join it, and if they do so after I'm a member, I'll have to leave.

Best answer yet !!!

Thanks

 

[Sketcher]

I keep hearing this being stated and recently someone started a thread here commenting on the lunacy of the Christian right. Honestly I don't know what they are talking about. Christian right or left what in the heck does any of that mean? Any of us, all of us we are either Christian or we are not there is no division in Christs body. So what are people talking about when they make statements that divide the indivisible truth?

Those people are overly political, putting their political views first, and the Bible second.