• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Chinese philosophy!

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
43,726
46,790
Los Angeles Area
✟1,044,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
They think the only truth is to develop at all cost to make more money to comfort their physical bodies.

That makes the Chinese pretty similar to Americans, Europeans, Japanese, Africans... most people on earth.
 
Upvote 0

Resha Caner

Expert Fool
Sep 16, 2010
9,171
1,398
✟163,100.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
I studied Chinese and Japanese history for my degree. I agree it is very interesting. The Chinese have a truly unique view of religion and I always wondered what made it so different from the rest of the world. With that said, it's not a philosophy I would adopt.

Should I curse china in my prayers?

No.
 
Upvote 0

Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
Jan 1, 2003
27,482
2,738
58
American resident of Sweden
Visit site
✟126,756.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Should I curse china in my prayers?

No.

Feel sad for them instead, and hope that they will improve their ideas about life.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I studied Chinese and Japanese history for my degree. I agree it is very interesting. The Chinese have a truly unique view of religion and I always wondered what made it so different from the rest of the world. With that said, it's not a philosophy I would adopt.



No.

I did not know that.

I think geography is definitely a critical role in shaping their culture. The geography controlled almost every critical events in their history from the very beginning till now.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Hi
I am Japanese. I grow up in china, and I love china very much.



The history of china is wonderful, but there are few people know it, even Chinese natives! The Chinese government tend to revision their history. They use their revisioned history to foolish their citizens to serve them!


Chinese philosophy is excellent. But look at it right now, the people of china abolished their ancestor 's philosophy and choose the socialism which is to be cursed.




As a result, Chinese guys dont believe justice now. They think the only truth is to develop at all cost to make more money to comfort their physical bodies.



So, my question is: why do people so stupid like Chinese? Considering that They have a splendid history! Should I curse china in my prayers?

They are not stupid. They already have the culture. Now they want things they never had in their history. That is smart. Of course there will be consequences. But I believe everyone will learn from mistakes.
 
Upvote 0

Illuminaughty

Drift and Doubt
May 18, 2012
4,617
133
✟28,109.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
I've been doing some reading on Chinese philosophy myself. I loved the Chuang Tzu it's probably one of my favorite books now. I think the Hua-Yen or Flower Garland school represents Chinese philosophy at it's best though.

Here is the wikipedia entry on the Hua-Yen school
Huayan school - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyone interested in looking into Hua-Yen philosophy should check these books out.

The Buddhist Teaching of Totality: The Philosophy of Hwa Yen Buddhism

Hua-Yen Buddhism: The Jewel Net of Indra

Entry Into the Inconceivable: An Introduction to Hua-Yen Buddhism
 
Upvote 0

Resha Caner

Expert Fool
Sep 16, 2010
9,171
1,398
✟163,100.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
I think geography is definitely a critical role in shaping their culture. The geography controlled almost every critical events in their history from the very beginning till now.

Yeah, that was put forward as an explanation, but I never bought it.

I can see how geography had an impact on the political structure of China. The logistical and military details of trying to defend a portion of China is very difficult. It's too easy for some "hoarde" to sweep the whole area. So it's an all or nothing kind of proposition ... i.e. either you develop the power to control it all or you lose it all.

And of course geographical references make their way into the cultural fabric, but that's true of any culture. The Scots love poems about heather and the Pacific Islanders love poems about the sea. That's not unique to China.

But why is their religious outlook so unique? Why would a Japanese mountain become holy whereas a Chinese mountain is just a mountain. Being a westerner, I'm not sure I can express it well. The best way I can explain it is that the Chinese religion is "secular," which sounds odd, but it's basically true. It has its mystical aspects (the word that comes to mind is "superstition" but I don't mean it in a derogatory way), but there isn't really any deistic component to it. Yes, the emperors sometimes called themselves "gods", but the view of that was different than when the emperors of other cultures used that term. It was more an idea of unquestioned honor and respect than of immaterial power.

Confucius reigns supreme in Chinese philosophy, and you might call him the world's first pragmatist. Yes, there is also Daoism and so forth, but even that is more an aesthetic secularism that provides the yang to the Confucian yin rather than the spiritual blather that western expatriates hang on it.

In fact, now that China has been influenced by the west (and by Buddhism) I'm not sure we'll ever really know what the original Chinese philosophers actually meant. Everyone will have their own idea, and who is to say what is "correct." My impression was that they didn't believe in anything immaterial - no deity, no spirit, no mystical things. Rather, they believed that the material itself is of such complexity that it will never be understood, and so it is within the material that there are things of mystery and power. In the end, those two words seem the best summary to me - that while other world philosophies had their root in the mystical, Chinese philosophy had its root in the mysterious.

But as to how that difference occurred, I have no idea.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Yeah, that was put forward as an explanation, but I never bought it.

I can see how geography had an impact on the political structure of China. The logistical and military details of trying to defend a portion of China is very difficult. It's too easy for some "hoarde" to sweep the whole area. So it's an all or nothing kind of proposition ... i.e. either you develop the power to control it all or you lose it all.

And of course geographical references make their way into the cultural fabric, but that's true of any culture. The Scots love poems about heather and the Pacific Islanders love poems about the sea. That's not unique to China.

But why is their religious outlook so unique? Why would a Japanese mountain become holy whereas a Chinese mountain is just a mountain. Being a westerner, I'm not sure I can express it well. The best way I can explain it is that the Chinese religion is "secular," which sounds odd, but it's basically true. It has its mystical aspects (the word that comes to mind is "superstition" but I don't mean it in a derogatory way), but there isn't really any deistic component to it. Yes, the emperors sometimes called themselves "gods", but the view of that was different than when the emperors of other cultures used that term. It was more an idea of unquestioned honor and respect than of immaterial power.

Confucius reigns supreme in Chinese philosophy, and you might call him the world's first pragmatist. Yes, there is also Daoism and so forth, but even that is more an aesthetic secularism that provides the yang to the Confucian yin rather than the spiritual blather that western expatriates hang on it.

In fact, now that China has been influenced by the west (and by Buddhism) I'm not sure we'll ever really know what the original Chinese philosophers actually meant. Everyone will have their own idea, and who is to say what is "correct." My impression was that they didn't believe in anything immaterial - no deity, no spirit, no mystical things. Rather, they believed that the material itself is of such complexity that it will never be understood, and so it is within the material that there are things of mystery and power. In the end, those two words seem the best summary to me - that while other world philosophies had their root in the mystical, Chinese philosophy had its root in the mysterious.

But as to how that difference occurred, I have no idea.

China has blended many different philosophies together through long period of time, yet each of them are still clearly countable. Every Chinese are more less affected by several of them at a different proportion. Put all of them together, it is then the modern Chinese culture. (So when you talked to Chinese, you will see each of them has a different emphasis on their culture/philosophy.)

Trace it back to its origin, why is the very ancient Chinese culture different from that of the ancient Egyptian or the ancient Indian? I still think it is mostly caused by geography, which includes the natural ecological environment. Geographic difference gave them different problems and different solutions. The geography also affected the historical economic development. For example, roughly the northern, central and southern China were almost three different nations until about 200 years ago, even they were subjected to the same politically/militarily control by successive central government. This situation is mostly due to the geographic boundaries/differences. Even today, they still insisted that northern Chinese are quite different from southern Chinese.
 
Upvote 0

Resha Caner

Expert Fool
Sep 16, 2010
9,171
1,398
✟163,100.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
I still think it is mostly caused by geography ...

Well, the professor who taught me Chinese history would agree with you. In fact, one of the papers we were required to write was on just that topic. But I just don't get it. In fact, for that paper, I went a totally different direction and wrote about how geography helped disseminate the tea culture through China.

In reply I got a, "Well, good paper but not what I was looking for," answer. She gave me an "A" and an offer for some graduate work in Chinese history, but I declined.

I'm saying that I understand geography has an influence on some things. I just don't see how geography could possibly explain this mystic vs. mystery distinction that I'm hung up on. I've mentioned it to a few Chinese co-workers. They nod and agree that China does have this oddly materialist, secular (or whatever word is best) view of religion - a view that is much older than Communism. At the same time, I can also tell they're being polite to this westerner who doesn't quite get it. But why would geography explain that?
 
Upvote 0

Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
Jan 1, 2003
27,482
2,738
58
American resident of Sweden
Visit site
✟126,756.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Some years ago, I proposed what I called Drazi's Razor, which suggests that in any complex causal system, single cause explanations for phenomena are almost certainly wrong. It's like a counter-point to Occam's Razor.

I agree that geography alone is almost certainly not sufficient as an explanation for China's mystic/mystery distinction.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Some years ago, I proposed what I called Drazi's Razor, which suggests that in any complex causal system, single cause explanations for phenomena are almost certainly wrong. It's like a counter-point to Occam's Razor.

I agree that geography alone is almost certainly not sufficient as an explanation for China's mystic/mystery distinction.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Geography is a term for a group of factors. It includes: climate, transportation, natural hazards, food production, natural resources, economic activity, military strategy, life style, etc.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Well, the professor who taught me Chinese history would agree with you. In fact, one of the papers we were required to write was on just that topic. But I just don't get it. In fact, for that paper, I went a totally different direction and wrote about how geography helped disseminate the tea culture through China.

In reply I got a, "Well, good paper but not what I was looking for," answer. She gave me an "A" and an offer for some graduate work in Chinese history, but I declined.

I'm saying that I understand geography has an influence on some things. I just don't see how geography could possibly explain this mystic vs. mystery distinction that I'm hung up on. I've mentioned it to a few Chinese co-workers. They nod and agree that China does have this oddly materialist, secular (or whatever word is best) view of religion - a view that is much older than Communism. At the same time, I can also tell they're being polite to this westerner who doesn't quite get it. But why would geography explain that?

I would like to learn how does that issue illustrate the non-factor of geography in shaping the regional culture.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Well, the professor who taught me Chinese history would agree with you. In fact, one of the papers we were required to write was on just that topic. But I just don't get it. In fact, for that paper, I went a totally different direction and wrote about how geography helped disseminate the tea culture through China.

In reply I got a, "Well, good paper but not what I was looking for," answer. She gave me an "A" and an offer for some graduate work in Chinese history, but I declined.

I'm saying that I understand geography has an influence on some things. I just don't see how geography could possibly explain this mystic vs. mystery distinction that I'm hung up on. I've mentioned it to a few Chinese co-workers. They nod and agree that China does have this oddly materialist, secular (or whatever word is best) view of religion - a view that is much older than Communism. At the same time, I can also tell they're being polite to this westerner who doesn't quite get it. But why would geography explain that?

That is true. The oldest systematic philosophy of China, as I know it, is the naturalistic Lao Tze, which is much better known by the book of I-Ching. And it was at about 500 BC to 1000 BC, which is not early at all.

But this is a product, not a cause of the culture. Most other ancient cultures had god or gods. China had none (and the consequence is to have too many at later time, such as Buddhistic and Daoistic deities).
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

Shang Di is a translation of the Lord of Heaven.

Jade Emperor is one of the deity in Daoism. He is not the greatest and is equivalent to a CEO in the Daoism kingdom. (There are many versions on what his role is in the "heaven")

Tian is the ideological supreme of justice. It is not a god. It is a concept.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Confucius say man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement


... sorry, I had to :)

No. Confucius said: You should not look at anything which is not appropriate.

So, if you see me naked in a glass house, it is your fault.
 
Upvote 0