Children of the Elect

[Grace_Alone4gives]

Gosh I hope this has not already been covered, although I am sure it has been.

It is my understanding that there are differing opinions surrounding the salvation of children born to God's people, should they pass at a young age, or before entering the world.

I am 'on the fence' as to where I sit on this (I am also on the fence about Calvinism); but would like to know the differing opinions among those in this forum.

Obviously, many of you follow covenant theology (while some of you are dispy's). Does this effect your beliefs in this area - it will be interesting to fidn out.

Help me comprehend. Obviously, I dont believe we can ever be 100% sure on this, but many have strong views and reasons why they interpret their stance the way they do. Thus, I am bringing this to you.

Thanks

 

[ClementofRome]

Ephesians 1:4 ...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world...

I do not think that covenant theology nor dispensational theology helps to answer this question. Reformed theology does help in this matter as the above reference notes. On the other hand,...no, i am not 100% sure. Just a simple sinner seeking God's will and answers to difficult questions.

 

[Imblessed]

Gosh I hope this has not already been covered, although I am sure it has been.

It is my understanding that there are differing opinions surrounding the salvation of children born to God's people, should they pass at a young age, or before entering the world.

I am 'on the fence' as to where I sit on this (I am also on the fence about Calvinism); but would like to know the differing opinions among those in this forum.

Obviously, many of you follow covenant theology (while some of you are dispy's). Does this effect your beliefs in this area - it will be interesting to fidn out.

Help me comprehend. Obviously, I dont believe we can ever be 100% sure on this, but many have strong views and reasons why they interpret their stance the way they do. Thus, I am bringing this to you.

Thanks

Wish i could help here, but I can't. I would imagine that those following covenant theology would believe differently then the dispy's, but I don't know.

It's one of those things I choose not to dwell on, because I will never really know; but I do know that God will do what is best. Does that make sense?

I have 2 boys, 3 and 5, and if they were to die, I feel in my heart that my faith is sufficient for them--I have made a pact with God to raise them in a Christian home, and I do. My 5 year old has a good solid (as solid as any 5 year old ) understanding of God and Jesus. My 3 year old hears of God and Jesus daily, and reminds us to say prayer at mealtimes(if we "forget" ), so I think his understanding is good, for his age. I cannot believe that they would go to hell.

I do not know about, say, my sister-in-law's son(also 5 years old). She is not a christian. Would Aden be punished for his mother's disbelieve? I don't know.

It's such a hard question.....

 

[wsgm]

I believe that salvation is God's work, not man's. Therefore, God can save whoever He chooses to save. God has chosen to save the elect but not anyone else. Children who die in the womb or in infancy will be saved if they are elect and go to hell if they are not, just as if they had lived out their lives to an old age. Many who hold this view also believe that all children who die in infancy are elect (not because they die in infancy, but just because God worked it out that way). I don't know of any Scripture that clearly states that this is always the case, so I don't hold strongly to such an idea. I do believe that some children who die in infancy (and people with severe mental handicaps) are of the elect and are saved; I just don't know if it's all of them. Either way, it is God's choice and grace that saves them, not the faith of their parents.

Because reformed theology bases salvation on God instead of man, there is hope for the parent who has lost a child still in the womb or in infancy. Arminianism offers no such hope because salvation is based on man's choice. In Arminianism, God only elects those whom He foresees choosing Him. How can a child not old enough to choose God be saved if salvation is based on such a choice? Arminianists often accuse Calvinists of being cold and uncaring, but they cannot offer hope to a grieving mother when a Calvinist can. As Spurgeon said, "My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will."

 

[Imblessed]

Because reformed theology bases salvation on God instead of man, there is hope for the parent who has lost a child still in the womb or in infancy. Arminianism offers no such hope because salvation is based on man's choice. In Arminianism, God only elects those whom He foresees choosing Him. How can a child not old enough to choose God be saved if salvation is based on such a choice? Arminianists often accuse Calvinists of being cold and uncaring, but they cannot offer hope to a grieving mother when a Calvinist can. As Spurgeon said, "My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will."

You know, that's an interesting point. One I had never thought of. But Arminians also believe in the age of accountability, and think that anyone born before that "age"(whenever that is)-automatically goes to heaven, as well as anyone who never heard the gospel. So I guess that takes care of their 'conundrum"--although it shoots a hole in the "looked down through the tunnel of time" theory.

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

According to the "Left Behind" books, that magic age is 14. You almost wonder why a hyper-Arminian wouldn't also be an abortion proponent.

 

[kyzar]

According to the "Left Behind" books, that magic age is 14. You almost wonder why a hyper-Arminian wouldn't also be an abortion proponent.

Wow, i never read that in Left Behind (although i do tend to skim read sometimes lol).
I also have a hope in an 'age of accountability' but i don't think i could ever set an actual on it. "Before 10 all children will go to heaven" doesn't really work for me. Each person is different, therefore in theory a child the age of 9 may well be accountable where as a teenager at 13 may not, its iffy, its touchy, and its something I hope to ask God about when I get to heaven...

 

[~Heavens_Bride~]

As far as age of accountability, or 'reason' - I beleive it is dangerous to set an age to that. Who says a child as young as 3 can't believe on the Lord? I dunno - I hate to see someone place an age on salvation. I have heard of churches that will not baptise a child until the child reaches 9yrs, even if the child requests it earlier - as 'they could not possibly comprehend what the baptism means'...sigh.

Your answers are great so far - keep em coming. Gives me something to ponder in my down time.

Victoria

 

[Gabriel]

The bible is not clear on this issue. I hold out the hope that infants are elect. It may not be true but it makes me feel good.

I take great comfort in the words that David used after his son passed away. 22And he said, “While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ 23“But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”http://www.christianforums.com/t1333433-children-of-the-elect.html#_ftn1
http://www.christianforums.com/t1333433-children-of-the-elect.html#_ftnref1The New King James Version. Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers., 1982. 2 Sa 12:22.

Emphasis mine. He was confident that his child was elect. I hold the same confidence of all children. After all, are we not to assume that all are His? For who are we to believe otherwise?

 

[Imblessed]

The bible is not clear on this issue. I hold out the hope that infants are elect. It may not be true but it makes me feel good.

I take great comfort in the words that David used after his son passed away. 22And he said, “While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ 23“But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”
The New King James Version. Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers., 1982. 2 Sa 12:22.

Emphasis mine. He was confident that his child was elect. I hold the same confidence of all children. After all, are we not to assume that all are His? For who are we to believe otherwise?

Right you are. especially the first 2 lines! That is my position exactly. God forbid my children die young, but if they do, I would be confident that they were heaven bound. I see no reason why they wouldn't be, I have turned them both over to God already.

 

[tigersnare]

Maybe I am oversimplifing this, but to me, the elect are the elect. If we truely believe Limited Atonement, Jesus either secured the salvation of a person or he didnt, no matter when in their lives they die.

 

[Lockheed]

Right, tigersnare...

Plus, since regeneration is a monergistic work of God, who knows when it occurs? (Though some Presbies and the Lutherans would say it might occur in infancy through baptism.)

I, a consistent Baptist believe that God regenerates whom He wills and calls whom He wills and saves whom He wills through their hearing the message of the Gospel regardless of their age.

 

[~Heavens_Bride~]

I did not know prebeyterians beleive in baptismal regeneration. Our congregation which is Reformed (and followers of covenental theology) and do not believe that the baptism on our children saves them at all!! I believe that is the stance with Preby's also.

Lutherans do not follow this theology, thus they beleive differently.

 

[Gabriel]

Presbyterians don't believe that baptism saves. Any Presbyterian who does believe that, doesn't understand the beliefs of the denomination.

 

[~Heavens_Bride~]

Another thought...regardless of baptism...who is to say that an infant can not have faith. I believe they can.

 

[AndOne]

I have been studying this for the past five months. Here is a powerful quote that I thought some might like:

"Of what value could the baptism of a helpless, unreasoning, decision-less, infant be--an infant in need of grace, but utterly unable to even ask for it or make the smallest contribution to salvation? -- Perhaps the reader can see now, infant baptism actually affords a very accurate picture of that salvation which is by grace alone." Gregg Strawbridge

What a powerful statement and what a picture of grace!

I have made my final decision concerning padeobaptism and will be posting a detailed thread on my personal conclusions soon. Stay tuned....

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I have been studying this for the past five months. Here is a powerful quote that I thought some might like:

"Of what value could the baptism of a helpless, unreasoning, decision-less, infant be--an infant in need of grace, but utterly unable to even ask for it or make the smallest contribution to salvation? -- Perhaps the reader can see now, infant baptism actually affords a very accurate picture of that salvation which is by grace alone." Gregg Strawbridge

What a powerful statement and what a picture of grace!

I have made my final decision concerning padeobaptism and will be posting a detailed thread on my personal conclusions soon. Stay tuned....

I can't wait.

Kenith

 

[frost]

Maybe I am oversimplifing this, but to me, the elect are the elect. If we truely believe Limited Atonement, Jesus either secured the salvation of a person or he didnt, no matter when in their lives they die.

This brings up an interesting question. What kind of people will infants be in heaven? They never had a personality or intellect, at least not developed. How will they even know the difference between heaven and earth? I know we wont know the answer this side of heaven but it's interesting to think about.

 

[Wrigley]

From Canons of Dort, Head One Article 17

FIRST HEAD: ARTICLE 17. Since we are to judge of the will of God from His Word, which testifies that the children of believers are holy, not by nature, but in virtue of the covenant of grace, in which they together with the parents are comprehended, godly parents ought not to doubt the election and salvation of their children whom it pleases God to call out of this life in their infancy (Gen 17:7; Acts 2:39; 1 Cor 7:14).