Chief end of man

[Hammster]

The Westminster Shorter Catechism starts with this question.

What is the chief end of man?

Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.

I agree with this because there is nothing greater than His glory. It’s the culmination of all we know about Him. Some have argued that God is more interested in loving us than He is with His glory. If this is true, then the Westminster divines got this wrong. Our chief end should be to love one another.

I think they got it right. God is very concerned about His glory because there is nothing greater. We can’t put an attribute of God (love for instance) above His glory for two reasons. One, God is singular and we cannot divide his attributes like ingredients in a cake. So one can’t be singled out over another. Two, His glory is the culmination of His attributes. So to pull one out (if it was possible) and put it over the culmination of His attributes would make no sense.


You who fear the Lord, praise Him;
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you descendants of Israel.
— Psalm 22:23

That’s a good command. We should follow it.

 

[BobRyan]

Amen.

I also like section 19 of the Westminster Confession of Faith - ... a lot.

 

[concretecamper]

Baltimore Catechism

Q. 126. What do we mean by the “end of man”?

A. By the “end of man” we mean the purpose for which he was created: namely, to know, love, and serve God.

 

[bling]

The Westminster Shorter Catechism starts with this question.

What is the chief end of man?

Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.

I agree with this because there is nothing greater than His glory. It’s the culmination of all we know about Him. Some have argued that God is more interested in loving us than He is with His glory. If this is true, then the Westminster divines got this wrong. Our chief end should be to love one another.

I think they got it right. God is very concerned about His glory because there is nothing greater. We can’t put an attribute of God (love for instance) above His glory for two reasons. One, God is singular and we cannot divide his attributes like ingredients in a cake. So one can’t be singled out over another. Two, His glory is the culmination of His attributes. So to pull one out (if it was possible) and put it over the culmination of His attributes would make no sense.


You who fear the Lord, praise Him;
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you descendants of Israel.
— Psalm 22:23

That’s a good command. We should follow it.

1 Cor. 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

If man does anything without Godly type Love it is worthless, but if man has Godly type Love will God’s Love also motivate him to bring wonderful glory to God by doing glorious actions?

Can we take any Biblical command given man and say: “That is man’s objective” and have scripture to back it up, since we are commanded to do it?

All commands are subordinate to the greatest command and second greatest commands, so could they be summed up as our mission statement with; “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy.”?

If we fulfill this Love mission statement will we fulfill “the chief end of man”?

If “God is very concerned about His glory”, why does God allow humans to do stuff which dishonors God, does not make God look glorious or do you feel it does?

I see God Love in allowing some humans to dishonor Him and help them and/or others to turn to Him, but what do you think?

 

[Hammster]

1 Cor. 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

If man does anything without Godly type Love it is worthless, but if man has Godly type Love will God’s Love also motivate him to bring wonderful glory to God by doing glorious actions?

Can we take any Biblical command given man and say: “That is man’s objective” and have scripture to back it up, since we are commanded to do it?

All commands are subordinate to the greatest command and second greatest commands, so could they be summed up as our mission statement with; “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy.”?

If we fulfill this Love mission statement will we fulfill “the chief end of man”?

If “God is very concerned about His glory”, why does God allow humans to do stuff which dishonors God, does not make God look glorious or do you feel it does?

I see God Love in allowing some humans to dishonor Him and help them and/or others to turn to Him, but what do you think?

I’m not answering all of those. Your post comes off as rambling, and I’m not entirely sure it addresses the OP.

 

[bling]

I’m not answering all of those. Your post comes off as rambling, and I’m not entirely sure it addresses the OP.

You made a statement defining: “The chief end of man”, which I just defined as the two greatest commands summed up as: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy.”

I defined that definition with 1 Cor. 13, but there are many more scriptures, I could use.

God is already glorious, so what is man’s objective (chief end)?

 

[bbbbbbb]

The reality, of course, is that the chief end of the vast majority of mankind will be to be cast into the lake of fire which burns forever and ever. God's justice is thus glorified.

 

[Hammster]

You made a statement defining: “The chief end of man”, which I just defined as the two greatest commands summed up as: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy.”

I defined that definition with 1 Cor. 13, but there are many more scriptures, I could use.

God is already glorious, so what is man’s objective (chief end)?

To give glory to God.

Ps. 86:9 All the nations you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord, and shall glorify your name.

Is. 60:21 Your people shall all be righteous; they shall possess the land forever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I might be glorified.

Rom. 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

1 Cor. 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

1 Cor. 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Rev. 4:11 "Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created."




But if you don’t think it’s important, then okay.

 

[bling]

The reality, of course, is that the chief end of the vast majority of mankind will be to be cast into the lake of fire which burns forever and ever. God's justice is thus glorified.

Are you saying: “God throwing wicked people into the lake of fire, glorifies God’s justice?”

God is always totally just and thus glorious, but God being forced by wicked humans to justly punish them for refusing His Love, adds nothing to God’s glory. God takes no pleasure or satisfaction in having to punish the wicked.

One of the problems with your doctrine is the fact: justly treating people means treating them equally and you have God for no apparent reason forgiving some people and not punishing them, while not forgiving other people and punishing them, which is unjust and not glorious.

 

[bling]

To give glory to God.

Ps. 86:9 All the nations you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord, and shall glorify your name.

Is. 60:21 Your people shall all be righteous; they shall possess the land forever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I might be glorified.

Rom. 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

1 Cor. 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

1 Cor. 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Rev. 4:11 "Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created."




But if you don’t think it’s important, then okay.

I am not suggesting in any way we do not by our: thoughts, actions and words, bring glory to God, but how we bring glory and what we can do to not bring glory to God must be defined.

A tree brings glory to God by being a tree, so how is man different in his bringing glory to God?

If you are doing the first two greatest commands, will you also automatically be bringing glory to God?

If you are not doing the first two greatest commands, can we say: no matter what else you are doing, it is not bringing glory to God?

 

[Hammster]

I am not suggesting in any way we do not by our: thoughts, actions and words, bring glory to God, but how we bring glory and what we can do to not bring glory to God must be defined.

A tree brings glory to God by being a tree, so how is man different in his bringing glory to God?

If you are doing the first two greatest commands, will you also automatically be bringing glory to God?

If you are not doing the first two greatest commands, can we say: no matter what else you are doing, it is not bringing glory to God?

Glorifying God is the end. Obedience is the means.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Are you saying: “God throwing wicked people into the lake of fire, glorifies God’s justice?”

God is always totally just and thus glorious, but God being forced by wicked humans to justly punish them for refusing His Love, adds nothing to God’s glory. God takes no pleasure or satisfaction in having to punish the wicked.

One of the problems with your doctrine is the fact: justly treating people means treating them equally and you have God for no apparent reason forgiving some people and not punishing them, while not forgiving other people and punishing them, which is unjust and not glorious.

God's treatment of the vast majority of humanity is patently unfair, at least in our understanding, It is not unjust, however, because humanity deserves His judgement simply because they are sinners. Without His saving grace through faith in Jesus Christ, they will receive His just judgement. If the chief end of the Christian is to glorify God, then can you posit a theology in which the chief end of lost sinners is to curse God?

 

[bling]

Glorifying God is the end. Obedience is the means.

What about all the disobedience going on in the world, does that take glory away fr4om God?

 

[bling]

God's treatment of the vast majority of humanity is patently unfair, at least in our understanding, It is not unjust, however, because humanity deserves His judgement simply because they are sinners. Without His saving grace through faith in Jesus Christ, they will receive His just judgement. If the chief end of the Christian is to glorify God, then can you posit a theology in which the chief end of lost sinners is to curse God?

No, God is not: “patently unfair, at least in our understanding”, God is totally fair, which is also “just”, if you “understand” the objective. Everything is driven by the objective.

God cannot go against the “will” of the individual unwilling to humble accept God’s help, God cannot force His Love (help/grace/mercy/forgiveness/charity) on a person, like in a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun. A love that was forced on an individual would not be a Godly type Love and if God is doing the forcing it does not show Godly type Love on His part.

You say: “because humanity deserves His judgement simply because they are sinners”, but you also believe: some for no apparent reason avoid God’s judgement as sinners, so why is that not the unfairness part?

I am not suggesting: “the chief end of lost sinners is to curse God”. Sin has a perceived carnal pleasure for a season, so people pursue that pleasure.

 

[Hammster]

What about all the disobedience going on in the world, does that take glory away fr4om God?

That’s outside the scope of this OP.

 

[Hammster]

No, God is not: “patently unfair, at least in our understanding”, God is totally fair, which is also “just”, if you “understand” the objective. Everything is driven by the objective.

God cannot go against the “will” of the individual unwilling to humble accept God’s help, God cannot force His Love (help/grace/mercy/forgiveness/charity) on a person, like in a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun. A love that was forced on an individual would not be a Godly type Love and if God is doing the forcing it does not show Godly type Love on His part.

You say: “because humanity deserves His judgement simply because they are sinners”, but you also believe: some for no apparent reason avoid God’s judgement as sinners, so why is that not the unfairness part?

I am not suggesting: “the chief end of lost sinners is to curse God”. Sin has a perceived carnal pleasure for a season, so people pursue that pleasure.

What is your definition of justice?

 

[bbbbbbb]

No, God is not: “patently unfair, at least in our understanding”, God is totally fair, which is also “just”, if you “understand” the objective. Everything is driven by the objective.

God cannot go against the “will” of the individual unwilling to humble accept God’s help, God cannot force His Love (help/grace/mercy/forgiveness/charity) on a person, like in a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun. A love that was forced on an individual would not be a Godly type Love and if God is doing the forcing it does not show Godly type Love on His part.

You say: “because humanity deserves His judgement simply because they are sinners”, but you also believe: some for no apparent reason avoid God’s judgement as sinners, so why is that not the unfairness part?

I am not suggesting: “the chief end of lost sinners is to curse God”. Sin has a perceived carnal pleasure for a season, so people pursue that pleasure.

I speak of unfairness from a human perspective. Many people conflate unfairness with injustice. God is perfectly just. "Fair" is a much more relative word. For example, we have the parable of the laborers in the vineyard in Matthew 20. From a human perspective the master of the vineyard was patently unfair, hence the grumbling.

 

[bling]

I speak of unfairness from a human perspective. Many people conflate unfairness with injustice. God is perfectly just. "Fair" is a much more relative word. For example, we have the parable of the laborers in the vineyard in Matthew 20. From a human perspective the master of the vineyard was patently unfair, hence the grumbling.

I've taught this parable many times.
Understanding the Spiritual parallel meaning, where God is the Master, allows you to see how it is totally fair and just. the earthly parallel story is just describing the fair/just spiritual kingdom, so the earthly story does not have to appear fair. In the spiritual kingdom you are not "rewarded" for how much spiritual "work" you allow God to do through you, while on earth, but your rewards comes from: wanting to work, seeking work. accepting the work, going to the work and staying until the end (payment time). The amount of work you actually allow God to do through you is insignificant. Every day work did exactly those same things, so they are fairly given exactly the same reward. Totally Fair.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I've taught this parable many times.
Understanding the Spiritual parallel meaning, where God is the Master, allows you to see how it is totally fair and just. the earthly parallel story is just describing the fair/just spiritual kingdom, so the earthly story does not have to appear fair. In the spiritual kingdom you are not "rewarded" for how much spiritual "work" you allow God to do through you, while on earth, but your rewards comes from: wanting to work, seeking work. accepting the work, going to the work and staying until the end (payment time). The amount of work you actually allow God to do through you is insignificant. Every day work did exactly those same things, so they are fairly given exactly the same reward. Totally Fair.

You might think so, but most folks do not see it at all as being remotely fair to compensate one man exactly the same amount for eight hours of heavy labor in contrast to another man who labored equally hard, but for only one hour. If you can find me an employer like that, I will gladly pursue work under him - but only for a five-hour work week.

 

[bling]

You might think so, but most folks do not see it at all as being remotely fair to compensate one man exactly the same amount for eight hours of heavy labor in contrast to another man who labored equally hard, but for only one hour. If you can find me an employer like that, I will gladly pursue work under him - but only for a five-hour work week.

Christ is not giving us an earthly story with an earthly application, which can be said about all parables. The earthly story has no practical use without the parallel spiritual kingdom meaning. The earthly story can be nonsensical as far as it goes without the under lying spiritual meaning. Yes! some "workers" in the kingdom will work longer here on earth than other workers, but we all, fairly and justly, get the exact same reward (eternal life in heaven with God), so does the earthly parable story Jesus told communicate how thing work in the kingdom?
Jesus explains this again in a parable of the worker and master in the field going home after a hard day.
If you for the rest of your life did everything perfectly (allowing Christ to work through you 24/7) you would have done the absolute minimum requirement. The fact that you do anything less, means you need God's forgiveness, mercy, grace and charity. God extends that forgiveness and makes us all equal.