Cheating

Mandevar · Dec 20, 2005

Is cheating wrong? What if its on a silly quiz to help you get that D or A?

I've been curious of this recently. I go to a public high school in Los Angeles. All of my peers just can't help themselves when it comes to cheating. There are those who never study and sit next to smarter people and copy on every single quiz and exam. There are those who write notes on the desk or another sheet of paper and simply hide it. And there are those who are good students and simply forgot to study or didnt have time and don't want to suffer the consequences.

Even on homework assignments, some people don't do it and just copy.

I've even asked some of my peers, why do you cheat? "Its just a little quiz, it doesnt matter" "Its not that serious man" "No dude seriously, calm down!"

There was even a little incident where a girl sitting next to me was copying my quiz and I admit, I could have tried covering up my answers better, but afterwards the teacher told ME as I was leaving the room (something along the lines of), "You should do a better job of keeping your paper covered." I asked the girl the next day if he mentioned anything to her, he didnt. Made me a little upset.

And please note this was in an AP class, cheaters are everywhere!

Is cheating that serious in college? Or is cheating in high school not that major and everyone does it.

So is there anyone who thinks its ever all right to cheat? What would be geniunely good reasons? How could I tell them it is wrong and not cool? Or do I just need to calm down and relax (which i'm told a lot )?

corvus_corax · Dec 20, 2005

Mandevar said:
So is there anyone who thinks its ever all right to cheat? What would be geniunely good reasons? How could I tell them it is wrong and not cool? Or do I just need to calm down and relax (which i'm told a lot )?

Well, I for one dont think its okay.
And Im not even going to mention the ethical reasons.
Were I to cheat, what good would it do me? Im talking, of course, in the long run. In the long run, if I havent studied enough, absorbed enough, to know what Im doing on a test, what good is it going to do me?
Quite frankly, it's not going to do me any good beyond this specific test score.

And if I ever caught someone cheating off of my test?
Id pass them a note in such a way that the teacher couldnt miss it. Then, when he marched down to read it out loud to the class, all he'd have to read is "Quit cheating off of my test- LOSER. You suck. And now the teacher is probably going to read this to the entire class- HAHAHAHAHA!*"

Of course, Im not in high school or college anymore. Im 36 and a bit more "get on with your own" in attitude.

Im sure some high schoolers and college kids will come along with advice that differs from mine.

*The note may be a bit nicer in tone if the cheater was a friend. Such as "Im just passing this note to you so the professor sees it. Trust me, if you learn this lesson, it will do you good"

Helo · Dec 20, 2005

In a perfect school system that actually teaches useful information and doesnt just meatgrind people through, cheating would be wrong.

But...the current school system isnt that effective, the ONLY thing it does is require you to memorize and regurgitate information. And there are some people who cannot memorize information as well as others and because of that, they fall behind.

In math, I was horrible. I have ADD and part of that is an extreme difficulty with memorizing numbers and number sequences, I forget my own phone number more times than I can count in the space of a day and for the life of me I cant remember my street number. I had to cheat in math, it was either that or fail. I worked my ass off and still failed, I studdied every night and I still failed.

I cheated a few times to save my butt and it paid off. You need to pass a certain number of math classes to graduate here, last semester of seinor year I had to pass that one class, if I didnt, I failed out of high school. It came down to one test, I had the answers written on the inside of my arm and I wore a sweatshirt that day. Aced the test and that put me at a 72% in the class. A 70% is a C, anything less than a C and I wouldnt have been able to graduate. If I had been honest, I would be sitting in continuation school right now getting a certificate of completion instead of a diploma. I cheated and got a diploma....why ask questions?

corvus_corax · Dec 20, 2005

Helo said:
I have ADD and part of that is an extreme difficulty with memorizing numbers and number sequences

TOTALLY off topic, but can I get a source for that?
(No, Im not looking to derail the thread and get into ADD...I would just REALLY appreciate the information)

Thanks in advance

Mandevar · Dec 20, 2005

Helo said:
In a perfect school system that actually teaches useful information and doesnt just meatgrind people through, cheating would be wrong.

But...the current school system isnt that effective, the ONLY thing it does is require you to memorize and regurgitate information. And there are some people who cannot memorize information as well as others and because of that, they fall behind.

In math, I was horrible. I have ADD and part of that is an extreme difficulty with memorizing numbers and number sequences, I forget my own phone number more times than I can count in the space of a day and for the life of me I cant remember my street number. I had to cheat in math, it was either that or fail. I worked my ass off and still failed, I studdied every night and I still failed.

I cheated a few times to save my butt and it paid off. You need to pass a certain number of math classes to graduate here, last semester of seinor year I had to pass that one class, if I didnt, I failed out of high school. It came down to one test, I had the answers written on the inside of my arm and I wore a sweatshirt that day. Aced the test and that put me at a 72% in the class. A 70% is a C, anything less than a C and I wouldnt have been able to graduate. If I had been honest, I would be sitting in continuation school right now getting a certificate of completion instead of a diploma. I cheated and got a diploma....why ask questions?

Well to a certain extent thats what you have to learn... dry, boring facts. In psychology for example, we had to essentially memorize the basic structure and functions of various areas of the brain and how neural impulses work. How can you get further in the subject without learning the basics?

I too suffered in math. Not as bad as you, though. It took me an extremely long time to do the math homework. 2-3 times longer than everyone else. We would be given twenty minutes to half an hour to do classwork. I never finished and always had a few problems I had to take home and finish in addition to the homework. I managed a B. But it took a lot more effort than any other class without a doubt.

See, thats kind of a problem to me. You say you need to pass that class to graduate... maybe they think someone who graduates ought to know that. You claim it is not important information and is not really teaching you "useful information" (whatever that is).

I hear that all the time. "I really need to pass this class" "I really need a 3.8 to get into this school" "I need a B in this class or I wont qualify for the scholorship" I mean where is the line drawn?

Eudaimonist · Dec 20, 2005

I was always told that if you cheat, you only cheat yourself out of an education. And they were right. (I followed their advice, btw.)

corvus_corax · Dec 20, 2005

Eudaimonist said:
I was always told that if you cheat, you only cheat yourself out of an education. And they were right. (I followed their advice, btw.)

As usual, someone states in two sentences what it takes me 2 paragraphs to state

See? I shouldnt have cheated so much in school ( )

ebia · Dec 20, 2005

corvus_corax said:
As usual, someone states in two sentences what it takes me 2 paragraphs to state

See? I shouldnt have cheated so much in school ( )

Ah, but if you look carefully he still copied it from someone else; he just acknowledged that he had done so.

Skydancing · Dec 20, 2005

Cheating on your partner is WRONG.

Cheating whilst playing a board game is totally normal in our family. My daughter, an Anglican Priest, and my husband, an atheist, have been cheating in the games they play for as long as my daughter has been old enough to play them! It is all good fun, and as only the two of them play the games, I let them get on with it, turning a deaf ear to cries of "he/she is cheating"!

corvus_corax · Dec 20, 2005

Skydancing said:
Cheating on your partner is WRONG.

What if your partner is okay with it?
What if both you and your partner are okay with it, and actively partake in it?

(sorry, threatening thread derailment here, but it DID get brought up)

Skydancing · Dec 20, 2005

If you have an open marriage where going with other partners is ok, then you are not cheating!

Helo · Dec 20, 2005

TOTALLY off topic, but can I get a source for that?
(No, Im not looking to derail the thread and get into ADD...I would just REALLY appreciate the information)

I was told that by the doctor that diagnosed me. I got sent to UCLA and tested for ADD and the guy who gave us the results basically said that my ability to retain and memorize numbers and number sequences was below average.

I dont buy the "your just cheating yourself out of an education" crap. Its something they say to make kids not want to cheat and it doesnt work.

Koz · Dec 20, 2005

Cheating on a quiz or a test in highschool isn't that bad. Cheating on the SATs and other more important tests is pretty bad/

Mandevar · Dec 20, 2005

corvus_corax said:
What if your partner is okay with it?
What if both you and your partner are okay with it, and actively partake in it?

(sorry, threatening thread derailment here, but it DID get brought up)

Cheating is cheating. My experience was just with academics. Discuss.

Mandevar · Dec 20, 2005

Koz said:
Cheating on a quiz or a test in highschool isn't that bad. Cheating on the SATs and other more important tests is pretty bad/

.

Thats also what I hear a lot... why is cheating on little test not that big of a deal but with major exams like this it is? I know people who cheat on some quizzes but refuse to on finals. Why do they think, just because its a little quiz, that they have a right, or shouldnt feel as bad, or plain and simply its just not that big of a deal?

Interesting story I could share. There is this girl in some of my classes with some strange mental problems. Deep psychological problems. She can memorize and regurgitate facts at the snap of a finger. Just the other day the teacher was writing the rhyme sceme and structure of a Shakesperian sonnet and as she was writing it the girl used all the technical terms like quotrain, octuplet, that ABABCCEFEF or whatever that crap (yeah sorry I dozed off during this little lesson) is and the teacher was amazed and asked how she memorized it. She said she remembered it from her ninth grade English book (were seniors now). She does this sort of thing all the time.

But this is also the same girl who got all 3 of her AP test scores invalidated and almost threatend the rest of ours as well. She also cheated on the SAT 2. She doesnt think its wrong. She took a prep book and left it in the bathroom stall and kept going to look. And for the SAT 2 she spent all her time on one portion of the exam instead of taking 3 different tests. The next day I hear her cheerfully talking about how smart she was because she was able to spend enough time on one section and get most of them right.

Why do some people, like her, not mind cheating? Its no big deal? Even on these important tests. Are there others, like me, who think cheating is wrong regardless of the importance of the exam? Why don't some of you buy the "it cheats you out of an education" bit? As far as I'm concerned, you don't deserve the grade you received and are ruining our entire education system (which is pretty darn bad here in LAUSD). You earn nothing but receive something. People think youre learning what youre suppose to be learning if you get a D or C, when in fact you've just been cheating. That just doesnt seem fair or right to me.

Mandevar · Dec 20, 2005

Skydancing said:
Cheating on your partner is WRONG.

Cheating whilst playing a board game is totally normal in our family. My daughter, an Anglican Priest, and my husband, an atheist, have been cheating in the games they play for as long as my daughter has been old enough to play them! It is all good fun, and as only the two of them play the games, I let them get on with it, turning a deaf ear to cries of "he/she is cheating"!

Haha, that sounds very enjoyable. I can see where it can all be in good fun and doesnt hurt anyone or ruin anyone elses fun. And you stated your stance very clearly on cheating in a relationship. But what about in the middle, academics? You believe those are too important to cheat. Even if its on some little quiz that could boost you up to that B?

Eudaimonist · Dec 20, 2005

Helo said:
I dont buy the "your just cheating yourself out of an education" crap. Its something they say to make kids not want to cheat and it doesnt work.

It worked for me. And I'm still glad I never cheated to this day. Not only did I get an education, I earned some self-respect.

Helo · Dec 20, 2005

Eudaimonist said:
It worked for me. And I'm still glad I never cheated to this day. Not only did I get an education, I earned some self-respect.

Self-respect is nice, but it wont get you anything.

I cheated and I didnt loose any sleep

NothingButTheBlood · Dec 20, 2005

I never felt right cheating in high school or college. I like to earn my grade. I also didn't let other cheat off of me. They can do the work themselves.

ebia · Dec 20, 2005

Helo said:
I was told that by the doctor that diagnosed me. I got sent to UCLA and tested for ADD and the guy who gave us the results basically said that my ability to retain and memorize numbers and number sequences was below average.

Half the population are below average.

Seriously though, some children really do struggle to retain mathematical ideas - they may work really hard in class, and do everything they should do, but they will still fail a normal test time after time. That doesn't mean that they are not progressing (though it might).

I dont buy the "your just cheating yourself out of an education" crap. Its something they say to make kids not want to cheat and it doesnt work.

That depends what the assessment is used for. If it is used to inform your teachers about your needs, then yes you are.

If you cheat instead of learning as much as you can, then yes you are.

Cheating

Regular Member

Naclist Hierophant and Prophet

Helo

Guest

Naclist Hierophant and Prophet

Regular Member

I believe in life before death!

Naclist Hierophant and Prophet

Senior Contributor

Well-Known Member

Naclist Hierophant and Prophet

Well-Known Member

Helo

Guest

Active Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

I believe in life before death!

Helo

Guest

Well-Known Member

Senior Contributor

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency