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Challenge for a formal debate

philadiddle

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I'd like to challenge Ikester to a formal debate. It can be one of the following subjects:

Is the creation account literal history?

Do Christian theologians find a literal reading of the creation account to be necessary for Christian doctrine?

Is carbon 14 dating accurate?

Does genetics support evolution or creationism?


I'd be open to other subjects as well. If you're interested we could post the debate here, and then also post it in the official debate forum at evolutionfairytale so that your friends there can see how illogical my evolutionist arguments are.

Let me know what you think.
 

ikester7579

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I have no problem debating you. Do we do it here, or in another section?

Also was wondering if the debate was going to turn into a name calling, demonizing, belittling contest? Because there is really no point in debating you if I'm going to be referred to as a flat earther etc... Because I have a few insults that would really make you mad if that's what kind of debate this is going to be. But I hope not.

Also I ask that you don't categorize me in a YEC box. I don't believe totally as most YECs do. That's because I think outside the box. And because I think outside the box, I also have fund answers to questions that the normal YECs or Christians do not have. And I also disagree with a lot of what AIG claims, or teaches. So don't put me in that box either.

I also have no problem debating all the subjects you list. My answers to them will be direct and to the point. But if you are going to turn this into a debate over semantics, then I will bow out.

And after this formal debate, I will challenge you to one over at the other forum. Fair enough?
 
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philadiddle

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I appreciate you responding. Maybe, since this is Christianforums we could stick to a topic like "Is the creation account literal history or non-literal history?"

I won't be name calling or anything. I was actually thinking we could do the debate here and on your other forum, we could post the same debate in both places.

We should also agree on a format. We could each have an opening, a rebuttle to the others opening, another rebuttle to their rebuttle, and then closing comments. That would be 4 posts each. The limit in length would be whatever the post limit is here (we'll have to find that out). There's no rush for us to respond, cause life can get busy, so maybe we could allow up to 3 weeks for a response from the other.

The official debate forum is in another section.

If any of the moderators would like to offer to moderate it that would be great. You could introduce the topic of the debate and explain that it will be hosted on two different sites. You could also delete posts by other members in the thread so that it is just Ikester and I.

To anyone out there, any further thoughts?
 
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philadiddle

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Never been in a debate like this. But I am game to learn.
I've never been in a formal debate either, so let's go into this with the mindset of "We are brothers in Christ and we are expressing what we believe God has revealed to us through the creation account."

By the way, since you were the one who wanted this. What is your goal here? Revenge maybe?
My goal is to see how much detail you've worked out in your point of view. I also want to see how you will react to what I have to say. I know that neither of us will change our minds from this, but I know that it will help fine tune my understanding of the subject.

In the rules for the debate section they ask that we have 2-3 days between responses, so maybe we could start this after Sept 1st. My time is quite limited until after that date. If it's ok with you I'll start a formal debate thread for us after that date. We can post the same debate on your other forum if you wish. Let me know if you want to do that.
 
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Hentenza

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Hey Philadidle and ikester7579,

Please start a thread here to work out the details of your debate proposal. There needs to be a main topic of discussion not multiple topics. I will be happy to moderate the debate.
 
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SkyWriting

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I'd make it a non-formal debate and ask others to refrain from interfering and going off topic. Just suggesting.
 
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SkyWriting

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My 2 cents:
Is the creation account literal history?
I have come to believe that it does match with the scientific idea of "first cause" better than a big bang caused by a quantum fluctuation does.

Do Christian theologians find a literal reading of the creation account to be necessary for Christian doctrine?
Literal truth is logically easier to follow than Lies, Hokum, Myths & Fairy Tails.

Is carbon 14 dating accurate?
Up to the point of being able to cross reference with historical documents.

Does genetics support evolution or creationism?

Both.
God created a limited number of animals and people.
Both were "reset" to a small number again by the Flood.
Many animals have changed, adding additional "species" since those events. Noting that "species" is a loose definition created by biologists.
 
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ikester7579

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I agree with most of what you said. Except I have been working on a new YEC theory. One that every evolutionist I meet hates because it makes all the evidence work.

Example: The 6 days of creation were done before sin, correct? So what is time minus sin? It's eternal. So the 6 days of creation were done under eternal laws, not non-eternal laws. That is why our current laws cannot explain creation. It would be like trying to make water boil at sea level at 100 degrees. Won't work.

So what would make time eternal? Currently, as time progresses, so does age. As long as age progresses, life cannot be eternal. So if you disconnect age from time so that when time progresses, age does not. Then you have eternity.

How it applies to living matter:

Except this changes the rules of everything. Why? If nothing ever ages, then life never grows up. So if God does not create all life in adult age, then life would simply die because most infant life cannot take care of themselves.

How it applies to dead matter:

A new created earth would be to hot for life to exist. And because in eternity nothing ever ages, earth would never cool down. So to create a new earth would not work. So God created an old earth so that His creation would work. Works the same way for our Sun. This makes age a part of how creation had to work.

Is there scripture to support this?


ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

2pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

God laid an old foundation, and He made it old by His word. The evo cop out is that God tricked us doing this. No. If you are open minded to the laws of physics being different at one time, it works out perfectly. Plus, as I have shown. It's clearly written. So how is it a trick?

Does this make age dating wrong? Nope. In fact it makes both time-lines correct. The 4.6 billion year aged earth shows God's creation power during eternity. The Biblical time-line shows the "actual" time passage.

How does that explain star light and light years? Because everything had to be created with age already added because age does not progress in eternity. When God made the light shine upon the earth, the star aged according to how far the light had to travel. The only star that did not happen to was our sun.
 
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Goldberg208

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I'm sorry, but this is just TOO HILARIOUS!!!! Water DOES boil at "100 degrees" CELSIUS at sea level!!

Is this the same guy who tried to claim that "Early Earth Creation Water" had an extra hydrogen atom, and was in fact "H2O2" (that's deadly Hydrogen Peroxide in case you're wondering), and runs one of the biggest laughing stock websites on the internet???

I mean seriously..."Time minus sin = Eternity"....is this valid mathematics in any way???

The problem w/ this ridiculous "theory" is obvious. Eternity and time are not physical objects. Eternity is only a metaphysical abstract to describe a period of time too great to be measured by any man made instruments, or even historical records.

The oomphalos argument here is being stretched to the point where it's akin to someone claiming for instance: "I have a 2x4 piece of lumber that measures 42 inches in length, but it looks to be some seven and a half feet(!) in length!!. Anyone who has even done basic 10th grade calculations knows you have to get your UNITS all arranged properly before the problem can be solved. This does'nt seem to be the case in this instance...
 
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Goldberg208

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erm...Not too egotistical are we??
And after this formal debate, I will challenge you to one over at the other forum. Fair enough?
You might want to consider why(?) would it be necessary to duplicate a debate in a different forum environment??
 
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philadiddle

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You might want to consider why(?) would it be necessary to duplicate a debate in a different forum environment??
Because in the other forum environment he can use rules to censor my arguments instead of having to actually address them. That's why I want to have the debate here, and I don't mind copying it from here to his other forum if it is unedited.
 
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