Challenge 3: One Judgment event for Everyone?

[Hupomone10]

Here is the 3rd challenge, not so much by number of the person who wrote them, but in the priority I place on them.

"2) Two separate final judgment events.
The apostles teach two separate grounds for judgment,
which are rewards for the justified, based on faithfulness, and salvation from wrath, based on belief,
but they do not teach two separate events of judgment.
The Jewish apostles present only one final judgment for all, the judgment of the sheep (believers) and the goats (unbelievers)."

Thoughts, comments?

Scriptural support as well as theological support welcome.

Please cite actual scripture, and not ONLY your take on the passage.


God bless,
H.

 

[dan p]

Here is the 3rd challenge, not so much by number of the person who wrote them, but in the priority I place on them.

"2) Two separate final judgment events.
The apostles teach two separate grounds for judgment,
which are rewards for the justified, based on faithfulness, and salvation from wrath, based on belief,
but they do not teach two separate events of judgment.
The Jewish apostles present only one final judgment for all, the judgment of the sheep (believers) and the goats (unbelievers)."

Thoughts, comments?

Scriptural support as well as theological support welcome.

Please cite actual scripture, and not ONLY your take on the passage.


God bless,
H.

Hi , and one Judgment is in Matt 25: 32-46 , BUT this judgment is after the Great Tribulation , as explained in Matt 24:29 .

The other Judgment is in the BEMA SEAT JUDGMENT in 1 Cor 3:10-15 !!

The last Judgment that I see is in Rev 20:11-15 , where it is the Great White Throne Judgment !!

dan p

 

[Biblewriter]

Here is the 3rd challenge, not so much by number of the person who wrote them, but in the priority I place on them.

"2) Two separate final judgment events.
The apostles teach two separate grounds for judgment,
which are rewards for the justified, based on faithfulness, and salvation from wrath, based on belief,
but they do not teach two separate events of judgment.
The Jewish apostles present only one final judgment for all, the judgment of the sheep (believers) and the goats (unbelievers)."

Thoughts, comments?

Scriptural support as well as theological support welcome.

Please cite actual scripture, and not ONLY your take on the passage.


God bless,
H.

We read in Matthew 25:31-32, "31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

This is not a gathering of souls for judgment it is a gathering of living men. For it explicitly says "before him shall be gathered all the nations."

This is completely different from the judgment of souls we read about in Revelation 20:11-15:
"

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."


Here, the ones being judged are those who have died. But those who have trusted in Christ will not be called to this judgment, for Jesus said,
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24) (The Greek word here translated "condemnation" is "judgment.")


Again, we read of a completely different judgment in 2 Corinthians 3:13-15 This is a judgment of works, not of men, for we read, "13Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 14If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
​

Here the man who does poor works is still saved, even though his works were burned up.

Again, we read, "10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." (Romans 14:10-12)

This may or may not be the same judgment as the last one we read about. But this one says nothing about fire.

So it is completely incorrect that the Jewish Apostles teach only one final judgment for all.

 

[damascusroad]

Awesome!

 

[Bro in Christ]

rev 20:11-15 Great white throne judgement is after the 1000 yr regien
Matt 25... sheep and goats which is believer and unbeliever... But not the church hear .... because the church is still a mystery

1 cor 3:12-15 Beama Seat Judgement ... church ..aka Rapture Judgement of grace

 

[RichardBurger]

Here is the 3rd challenge, not so much by number of the person who wrote them, but in the priority I place on them.

"2) Two separate final judgment events.
The apostles teach two separate grounds for judgment,
which are rewards for the justified, based on faithfulness, and salvation from wrath, based on belief,
but they do not teach two separate events of judgment.
The Jewish apostles present only one final judgment for all, the judgment of the sheep (believers) and the goats (unbelievers)."

Thoughts, comments?

Scriptural support as well as theological support welcome.

Please cite actual scripture, and not ONLY your take on the passage.


God bless,
H.

My understanding is that the nation of Israel is never called a nation. Only the Gentile nations are called nations.

Therefore the "sheep and Goat" judgement is only for the gentile nations and is based solely on how the nations (gentiles) treated the Jews who were Jesus' brother at the time of His telling about the judement in question.

Under the Abraham convenent God will bless those that bless Israel and curse those the curse Israel.

In my opinion the "Sheep Goat" Judgement is only for the purpose of choosing those Gentiles who missed the rapture (caught-up) but blessed the Jews with the end result that the ones that blessed Israel will go into the 1000 year kingdom of Christ on this earth.

IMHO it is a shame that some christain teachers think that there is a judgement for believers other than for rewards. A child of God has already been judged and sealed with the Holy Spirit when he/she truly believes their sins are covered by the work of Jesus Christ on the cross. The only sin that condemns is the sin of unbelief; not believing the promises contained in the word of God.

But there are many who claim to be Christians who do not really have belief, faith, trust, and confidence in God's promise of salvation by faith in His works on their behalf..

 

[PastorTeacher]

There are two judgements: Bema Seat Judgement and Great White Throne Judgement.

1. Bema Seat Judgement is for believers and the issue is what each accomplished in their Spiritual life.

2. Great White Throne Judgement is for unbelievers and the issue is their unbelief in Christ.
During both judgements sin is never an issue.