Census Thread??

Wrong or sin , you argue pedantics? Is that your best offer.
I wont turn you away from this forum Busker, you are more than welcome here to receive the gospel message.

Tell me though what do you base your belief that
" I think lying leads to greater levels of unfairness in a community."
Lying is unfair, when survival by any means is the natural law?

TheDag said:

and there is nothing wrong with what Habakkuk did. It matches exactly what I said. It does not match your actions though. It also matches the NT instruction on the matter. Can you see the difference or do you need to do more reading?

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Do I need to do more reading........uhm obviously, because I have no idea the direction you are coming from?


I am asking Busker what right he has to ask people to follows his beliefs
Urge ask or whatever, busker is setting out a moral platform for others to follow. What gives him that right ? Busker is saying his way is the right way, How can he do that?

Why cant I get one honest answer from any of the atheist around here???

Born to Watch said:

Do I need to do more reading........uhm obviously, because I have no idea the direction you are coming from?


I am asking Busker what right he has to ask people to follows his beliefs
Urge ask or whatever, busker is setting out a moral platform for others to follow. What gives him that right ? Busker is saying his way is the right way, How can he do that?

Why cant I get one honest answer from any of the atheist around here???

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I would have thought the answer was obvious. Anyone can do that. Also note that you claimed he demanded people follow his way. Demanding is not the same as urging or asking. That is the original point I made to which you told me Busker did demand. So simply provide proof of the demand or be honest and say oops "I got that wrong sorry". How hard is it to get an honest answer around here?

TheDag said:

I would have thought the answer was obvious. Anyone can do that. Also note that you claimed he demanded people follow his way. Demanding is not the same as urging or asking. That is the original point I made to which you told me Busker did demand. So simply provide proof of the demand or be honest and say oops "I got that wrong sorry". How hard is it to get an honest answer around here?

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Here you go Buddy, buskers opening salvo

"I think people should answer the census question honestly, because that's the right thing to do whether appreciated form a biblical or a secular perspective. Encouraging people to lie on their form, as this email does, asks them to break the law and a commandment. Please do not heed or spread the information in that prejudiced, fear based incitement to lie."

"Do not"
in context is a demand, what makes buskers comments even more deplorable is he claims atheism and then stands on a Christian platform and uses what he doesnt believe to preach at others
"Encouraging people to lie on their form, as this email does, asks them to break the law and a commandment"

Busker is using only what he wants to use from the bible and ignores everything that doesnt suit his desires. That is disgusting, deplorable.
Busker only wants the truth from others when he wants to satisfy his agenda.

But you go and sing him that lullaby Dags.

If you cant see this as a demand and you think I am wrong still, I am sorry to have accused him wrongly.
Though I still believe my interpretation is right.

Worldslaziestbusker said:

And if I choose not to accept that message, am I still welcome? If you are the example of receiving that message, I figure I am better off without it.
Sin is a judgement with respect to mandates in your much loved Bible. Wrong is a judgement in respect to the demonstrable benefit or harm caused by a particular action in a community.
Example: it is a sin to work on Sunday according to the Bible, but it has no demonstrable harm to the community in which it occurs.

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No you are not better off without the gospel and yes sin is a biblical term, though as I suspect, as an evolutionist you have no standard to base moral obligation on. Why is it wrong to lie? Is community the be all and end all of evolution? How and why?
Is it a sin to work on Sunday, I didnt think so, do you have proof or is that something you are telling me, like I shouldnt lie, based on your moral agenda or my Christian belief?

Worldslaziestbusker said:

Any community in which the truth is deliberately suppressed becomes corrupt and harm is inflicted on the less powerful by the more powerful. The Catholic Church would be a prime example of people being told what to believe without thinking for themselves and in which distasteful truths are hidden, leading to a culture of oppression. I base my ideas on what actually happens in the world around us, not on what an ancient book claims to be correct based on its own truth, which is true because it's in the book, which is true.
I cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you to leave me out of what you do. You don't seem to understand that people who don't share your beliefs should be left out of them. You have no right to push them on others but still you think you do. That single misapprehension is the foundation of all religious oppression. People who think they are right, and that they therefore can push the laws of their own belief system on others has a long history of causing oppression and misery.
I am not trying to make you believe the same things as me. I am asking that you leave my out of your beliefs. That is all I want but it is not what occurs in our society. What is wrong with requesting that I be left alone? You have been asked several times but have failed to provide a cogent answer.

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Evolution states the strong will pass on to the strong and the weak will be destroyed. Lying to benefit, is evolutionary beneficial. A solid evolutionary foundation.
I have as much right to preach the gospel as you have to demand the truth at census time.
You have failed to provide an answer justifying your moral standard on the truth.

Worldslaziestbusker said:

Did you formerly post on this forum as Monarchist?

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Non of your business

Born to Watch said:

Here you go Buddy, buskers opening salvo

"I think people should answer the census question honestly, because that's the right thing to do whether appreciated form a biblical or a secular perspective. Encouraging people to lie on their form, as this email does, asks them to break the law and a commandment. Please do not heed or spread the information in that prejudiced, fear based incitement to lie."

"Do not"
in context is a demand, what makes buskers comments even more deplorable is he claims atheism and then stands on a Christian platform and uses what he doesnt believe to preach at others

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You are deceitful and a twister of plain words. Why did you leave out the word "please" before the "do not"? The phrase "please do not" is a polite request not a command.

Busker is using only what he wants to use from the bible and ignores everything that doesnt suit his desires. That is disgusting, deplorable.
Busker only wants the truth from others when he wants to satisfy his agenda.

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I think the pot is calling the kettle black.

AL

Born to Watch said:

Here you go Buddy, buskers opening salvo

"I think people should answer the census question honestly, because that's the right thing to do whether appreciated form a biblical or a secular perspective. Encouraging people to lie on their form, as this email does, asks them to break the law and a commandment. Please do not heed or spread the information in that prejudiced, fear based incitement to lie."

"Do not"
in context is a demand, what makes buskers comments even more deplorable is he claims atheism and then stands on a Christian platform and uses what he doesnt believe to preach at others
"Encouraging people to lie on their form, as this email does, asks them to break the law and a commandment"

Busker is using only what he wants to use from the bible and ignores everything that doesnt suit his desires. That is disgusting, deplorable.
Busker only wants the truth from others when he wants to satisfy his agenda.

But you go and sing him that lullaby Dags.

If you cant see this as a demand and you think I am wrong still, I am sorry to have accused him wrongly.
Though I still believe my interpretation is right.

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Well I will disagree with your interpretation because the word please appears there. The word please is part of the context. Thanks for explaining your view.

Argy Lacedom said:

You are deceitful and a twister of plain words. Why did you leave out the word "please" before the "do not"? The phrase "please do not" is a polite request not a command.



I think the pot is calling the kettle black.

AL

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"Please do not" is in the original post. Its a demand wrapped in a pretty bow, but a demand never the less.
Dags
If a policeman says to me."Please do not speed" His not asking.

Argy whether you agree or not is absolutely irrelevant. As for the pot and kettle analogy, what?
I believe the word of God, and the moral standard given by God is perfect, all of it.What are you on about?

Born to Watch said:

"Please do not" is in the original post. Its a demand wrapped in a pretty bow, but a demand never the less.
Dags
If a policeman says to me."Please do not speed" His not asking.

Argy whether you agree or not is absolutely irrelevant. As for the pot and kettle analogy, what?

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Don't be ridiculous. If I say "please give me $100" it is a request, not a demand.

I believe the word of God, and the moral standard given by God is perfect, all of it.What are you on about?

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I know you don't believe that for one instant! How many disobedient children have you killed lately? How many adulterers have you stoned to death? How many homosexuals have you executed?

AL

Argy Lacedom said:

Don't be ridiculous. If I say "please give me $100" it is a request, not a demand.

I know you don't believe that for one instant! How many disobedient children have you killed lately? How many adulterers have you stoned to death? How many homosexuals have you executed?

AL

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Well as I stated Argy I read it as a demand. Agree or not its irrelevant to me.

Now here we go again the Gospel according to Argy. Seriously do you have a learning disability, I ask that in all seriousness as I have asked you to explain how you have come up with that crazy belief and I have answered you before.

Tell me Argy where do you get this belief that Christians kill disobedient children stone to death adulterers execute homosexuals.
Surely to make those comments your IGNORANCE of Christianity must be of an immense proportion. In fact if what you posted was what Christians believed or Jesus stood for, I would hate them as well.
The mere fact you would use those issues to attack Christianity exposes your complete and utter base line ignorance.
Please Explain.

Born to Watch said:

Please Explain.

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Simple really. As you said

I believe the word of God, and the moral standard given by God is perfect, all of it.

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You set yourself up so easily, don't you? Everything Argy claimed is in the bible. You'd know that if you read it.

Most christians here accept there are discrepancies in the bible. You seem to be either ignorant of them or just dishonest. Which is it?

In fact if what you posted was what Christians believed or Jesus stood for, I would hate them as well.

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Why would you hate them? Is there really so much nastiness inside you?

Bungle_Bear said:

Simple really. As you saidYou set yourself up so easily, don't you? Everything Argy claimed is in the bible. You'd know that if you read it.

Most christians here accept there are discrepancies in the bible. You seem to be either ignorant of them or just dishonest. Which is it?

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Hmmm
Seems really easy BB, so why the rhetoric and not the evidence?
I wonder?
Dont know what you are talking about?
Dont wait for Argy, you can have a crack, its an open forum. Less talk more evidence.
Discrepancies;well?

Bungle_Bear said:

Why would you hate them? Is there really so much nastiness inside you?

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No I havnt a drop of nastiness in me, sweet as a new born babe, havnt you noticed BB

Born to Watch said:

Hmmm
Seems really easy BB, so why the rhetoric and not the evidence?
I wonder?
Dont know what you are talking about?
Dont wait for Argy, you can have a crack, its an open forum. Less talk more evidence.

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Kill adulterers: Lev 20:10
Kill Disobedient children: Exodus 21:15 and 17
Kill homosexuals: Lev 20:13

I recommend that you read your bible before defending it.

AL

Is that it.

Argy can you tell me the difference between a Jew and a Christian.
Also the difference between the Judaic law and the Christian covenant under Jesus.
Do you know that the bible is made up of two books, the Old Testament and the New.
Representing two religious systems.
To even suggest those laws are representative of Christianity is beyond ignorant, to even suggest you have any understanding of the Judeo Christian religion boggles my mind.
I am completely and utterly perplexed how somebody with so little knowledge, believes they can comment.
Both Leviticus and Exodus are as relevant to Christianity as atheism is relevant to Christianity.

THE GREAT COMMANDMENT

Matthew 22:36-40 - "Master (one of the Sadducees, an expert in the Law, said to Jesus), what are we to consider the Law's greatest commandment?" Jesus answered him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

This is the first and great commandment. And there is a second like it: ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.' The whole of the Law and the Prophets depends on these two commandments."

Mark 12:28b-33 - (One of the scribes to Jesus ....) "What are we to consider the greatest commandment of all?" "The first and most important one is this," Jesus replied - 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength.'

The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbour as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these."

"I am well answered," replied the scribe. "You are absolutely right when you say that there is one God and no other God exists but him; and to love him with the whole of our hearts, the whole of our intelligence and the whole of our energy, and to love our neighbours as ourselves is infinitely more important than all these burnt-offerings and sacrifices."

Luke 10:25-28 - Then one of the experts in the Law (a scribe) stood up to test him and said, "Master, what must I do to be sure of eternal life?" "What does the Law say and what has your reading taught you?" said Jesus.

"The Law says, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind' and 'your neighbour as yourself'," he replied. "Quite right," said Jesus. "Do that and you will live."


JESUS AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

Matthew 5:17-20 - (Jesus during the Sermon on the Mount ....) "You must not think I have come to abolish the Law (including the Ten Commandments) or the prophets. I have not come to abolish them but to complete them. Indeed, I assure you that, while Heaven and earth last, the Law will not lose a single dot or comma until its purpose is complete. This means that whoever now relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men to do the same will himself be called least in Heaven.

But whoever teaches and practises them will be called great in the kingdom of Heaven. For I tell you that your goodness must be a far better thing then the goodness of the scribes and Pharisees before you can set foot in the kingdom of Heaven at all!

I could go in to some detail Argy about why you are wrong, but I believe if you are so completely wrong about the teachings of Jesus it is by choice.
The mere suggestion that the old testament is representative of Christian doctrine is beyond foolish.

Born to Watch said:

Is that it.

To even suggest those laws are representative of Christianity is beyond ignorant, to even suggest you have any understanding of the Judeo Christian religion boggles my mind.

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We are not talking here about Christianity, but your claim that ... Is the OT part the word of god or not?

AL

Yeah fine, the law states that there must be retribution. There must be a punishment, surely that is only logical.
The human moral standard is a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye. Sin must be punished. We live in a society that expects and supports that very principle.
Do you disagree?
Is God wrong in demanding judgement, if he exists of course?

BtW, if as you claim, "both Leviticus and Exodus are as relevant to Christianity as atheism is relevant to Christianity" why are they part of the bible which is your holy text? And why do you get so hung up on Genesis being the true version of creation if it is not relevant?

You are truly deceitful. Shame on you.

Good question.
The OT is historically accurate and points to Jesus as God the Son.
So while the law has been fulfilled and acting appropriately is a Christian policy, the Old Testament doesnt represent Christianity.
Its as absurd as suggesting atheism represents Christianity. Yes they are related but the same?

Deceitful, I know you have never ever picked up the bible to read and you think you are educated enough to comment.
You deceive yourself.

Born to Watch said:

Good question.
The OT is historically accurate and points to Jesus as God the Son.

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Is the OT the Word of God?

Is killing a moral punishment for disobedient children, homosexuals and adulterers?

So while the law has been fulfilled and acting appropriately is a Christian policy, the Old Testament doesnt represent Christianity.

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Before the law was fulfilled was the earth supported on pillars? Was it flat? Did it have four corners?

Did evolution start after the law was fulfilled?

AL