Catholics only - How can someone become

[Tutorman]

I was at Mass on Sunday and listening to the homily. My Priest mentioned how much of a percentage of young people become atheist, I believe it was 60 percent or something similar. I just can wrap my head around how can someone be an atheist. I been a Christian most of my life and maybe I am just getting old, I just do not get it.


*I put Catholics only because that is all the answers I want. I hope I can respond to my own thread

 

[thecolorsblend]

I don't buy stats like that. It's fairly common for people to have "wilderness years". It's also fairly common for them to return to the fold. This 60% figure is especially shady because it seems like every year it gets repeated even though religious leaders across the country report that "young people" in their mid-20's and up are the fastest growing segments of their memberships.

The numbers just don't make sense unless the "abandonment of faith" is a strictly temporary condition.

 

[Tutorman]

The stat could be wrong, but it is mind boggling to me how someone could an atheist

 

[Tomm]

I was at Mass on Sunday and listening to the homily. My Priest mentioned how much of a percentage of young people become atheist, I believe it was 60 percent or something similar. I just can wrap my head around how can someone be an atheist. I been a Christian most of my life and maybe I am just getting old, I just do not get it.

I think that's due to personal sins, and also bad (or poor) clergymen.
By the way, sorry for my ignorance, what denomination is "Episcopalian" ?

 

[Gnarwhal]

I tend to agree with @thecolorsblend, I'm not so sure those statistics are well-founded. Sometimes it seems like those stats are reported in the service of some other agenda. Yes, the Millennial and Post-Millennial generations are comparatively more secular than their Baby Boomer parents, but I think there has also been growth within the Church in these areas as well and that things may circle back around. At least a little bit.

This is just my own personal observation, but it seems like we're going through somewhat of a refinement period. A separating of the wheat from the chaff, if you will. I say this because it seems like my peers in the Millennial generation are going one of two ways: either they're becoming completely irreligious, or they're grasping the truest and most traditional expressions of the Catholic faith.

On the one hand, I have lapsed Catholic friends who just live by some sort of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, and on the other I have friends like myself who hunger for the truth of the Catholic faith. More than that, we want the expression of the faith that had been celebrated consistently and all over for centuries up until the 60s and 70s when people tried to modernize it.

 

[Davidnic]

There is a lot of poor Catechesis when they are younger. This year I made class challenging for my 8th graders and they loved it. They had questions about everything. They want to know, they have questions but they never get answers. So they don't know who God is and buy what the culture tells them about Him. And that leads to falling away. I had students who were 13 and telling me their friends were atheists. The biggest issues with young Catholics becoming atheists are that we do not prepare them for the push against them from the culture and we do not answer the questions they have about the faith so they take their answers from those who have a twisted idea of God. Another big thing is they are told the Church is opposed to science and never told how the Church has advanced real science. What the Church opposes is scientism, the idea that science is the only way to answer questions and is a religion in itself.

We had a good year. I did classes on:

What are Materialism and Relativism?
Refuting The New Atheists
The Church and Science
Modern Technology and Your Faith
Finding Time for God in a Busy World

Then I teach a four part multi session class to our local homeschool co-op.


Class One
To Defend the Faith You Must Live It.

• The Eucharist
  
  • You must draw strength from somewhere
    
    
  • Why, above all else the Eucharist?
• The Rosary and other devotions
  
  • The Rosary
    
    
  • Sacramentals
    
    • A Sacramental Life
  • Other Devotions
• Patron Saints
  
  • Your Name Saint
    
    
  • Personal interests/struggles
    
    
  • St. Joseph
• Prayer
  
  • Prayer is A Relationship
    
    • Make your life a prayer
  • Some Types of Prayer
    
    • Memorized Prayer
      
      
    • Daily Examen
      
      
    • Lectio Divina
• Why People Will Come To You
  
  • The light of the world shines through you
    
    
  • They see you have the truth and want one of two things
    
    • The Truth
      
      • Answering honest questions
    • To take it from you
      
      • Answering dishonest questions
        
        
      • Keeping your precious gift of faith safe and strong
• Basics of Apologetics
  
  • Listen to Understand Before You Respond
    
    • Listening to what is actually said and what they mean will make your responses better and more effective
      
      
    • Do not assume intention, just deal with what is said
      
      
    • Realize they may say something...but mean something else
      
      
    • Sometimes they do not even know the actual question they are asking
  • You will not know everything
    
    
  • Resources to know your faith
    
    • Venerable Fulton Sheen
      
      
    • Servant of God Demetrius Gallitzin
      
      
    • Many others...how to find more and some suggestions

Class Two


Defending Your Mother

• Non Catholic Christians and Atheists
  
  • Non Catholic Christians
    
    • How we got the Bible and What are the Early Church Fathers
      
      • The Canon of Scripture
        
        
      • Changes made by Luther and Others
    • Defending The Church
      
      • What is Apostolic Succession
        
        • Peter The Rock
      • What is Tradition with a nig "T"
    • Defending Mary And The Saints
      
      • Why is Mary Special?
        
        • Marian Dogmas
          
          • Mother of God
            
            
          • Ever Virgin
            
            
          • Immaculate Conception
            
            
          • Assumption
      • The opposition to Mary is fairly new
        
        • The early Church believed what we believe
      • Purgatory and The Saints
        
        • Why do they doubt Purgatory?
          
          • The King's Invitation
        • They say Worship only God and why pray to Saints
          
          • Dulia and Latria
            
            
          • How can they hear prayers
    • Defending The Bible
      
      • Again How did we get the Bible and know that It is right
        
        
      • The Catholic Church: The greatest defender of Scripture
        
        • The Church never hid the Bible
  • Atheists
    
    • Atheist vs Agnostic
      
      
    • Atheism as intellectual snobbery
      
      
    • Atheism as social status
      
      
    • Answering Common Atheist points
      
      • Claimed contradictions in the Bible
        
        
      • Suffering in the World
        
        
      • Free Will and A Controlling God
        
        
      • They say, you can’t prove Him

• Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses
  
  • Mormons
    
    • What They Believe
      
      
    • Great Apostasy
      
      
    • Concept of Christ and The Father
      
      • Trinity issues
    • Their Errors
      
      • How to Refute
        
        • Be kind and open
          
          
        • Pray with them
          
          
        • Do not back down on the fact that the Great Apostasy never happened
          
          
        • Know the Early Church Fathers
          
          
        • Know Church History
          
          
        • You are planting seeds
• Jehovah’s Witnesses
  
  • What They Believe
    
    • Christ is the only direct creation
      
      • Very few get saved
        
        
      • Satan fell Oct 1, 1914
        
        
      • Believe they are the reflection of first century Christianity
    • Their Errors
      
      • How to Refute
        
        • Again, challenge apostasy
          
          
        • Know the Early Church Fathers
          
          
        • Scripture shows the Father created
          
          
        • Challenge the authority of the Watchtower

Class Three


Old Problems are New Again

• Neo Gnosticism, Materialism and Relativism (Three heads of Secularism)
  
  • Neo-Gnosticism
    
    • Gnosticism and Neo-Gnosticism What is it?
      
      • Secret knowledge revealed only to you
        
        
      • Changing dogmas
        
        
      • It has many forms
    • Why it is a problem
      
      • Look at what revelation really is
        
        
      • The gateway to all heresy
    • How to recognize and refute it
      
      • Approved Private Revelation vs Not Approved
        
        
      • Know Church History
        
        
      • Hold fast to Truth
  • Materialism and Relativism
    
    • What are they?
      
      • Materialism
        
        • Happiness in consumption
          
          • Consumer culture
            
            
          • People as providers not partners
        • Deeper, it is that there is no invisible world
          
          • Only what you can get
      • Relativism
        
        • Your Truth is as good as my truth
          
          • The Dictatorship of Relativism
            
            
          • Helps make false gods
    • Why are they problems?
      
      • There is an invisible world
        
        
      • There is Truth, objective and inevitable
    • How to recognize and refute them
      
      • Get to know Dietrich Von Hildebrand
        
        • Identified and fought relativism
          
          
        • His book: Graven Images
      • Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI
        
        
      • The Eucharist, the great destroyer of materialism
        
        
      • All of it comes down to three things from Pilate
        
        • Where are you from?
          
          
        • What is Truth?
          
          
        • Behold the Man!

Class Four


Oh You Think You Know What Happened With Galileo?

• Catholics and Science
  
  • Science is part of God’s world and serves Him
    
    
  • St. Thomas Aquinas
    
    
  • The False Narrative: Catholics are Against Science
    
    
  • Why is it so important to them that people push the lie that we hate science?
    
    
  • Most famous case you will see used
    
    • Galileo
      
      • Initial theory
        
        
      • University Politics
        
        
      • Galileo had some science wrong and the Church had it right
        
        
      • What it all was and what it all was not
  • Catholics have made the greatest contribution to science of any group
    
    • Gregor Mendel
      
      
    • Roger Bacon
      
      
    • Fr. George Lemaitre
      
      
    • Stanley L. Jaki, OSB
      
      • Wrote many books
        
        • Book: The Savior of Science
• The Church and Reason
  
  • The great logic of love
    
    
  • The beauty of Dogmas
• The Popes on Science
  
  • So when does it go off the rails
    
    
  • Science and Materialism
    
    
  • Science twisted

 

[thecolorsblend]

I tend to agree with @thecolorsblend, I'm not so sure those statistics are well-founded. Sometimes it seems like those stats are reported in the service of some other agenda. Yes, the Millennial and Post-Millennial generations are comparatively more secular than their Baby Boomer parents, but I think there has also been growth within the Church in these areas as well and that things may circle back around. At least a little bit.

This is just my own personal observation, but it seems like we're going through somewhat of a refinement period. A separating of the wheat from the chaff, if you will. I say this because it seems like my peers in the Millennial generation are going one of two ways: either they're becoming completely irreligious, or they're grasping the truest and most traditional expressions of the Catholic faith.

On the one hand, I have lapsed Catholic friends who just live by some sort of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, and on the other I have friends like myself who hunger for the truth of the Catholic faith. More than that, we want the expression of the faith that had been celebrated consistently and all over for centuries up until the 60s and 70s when people tried to modernize it.

You’re right. My view of what’s going on is that most boomers were more or less raised in some type of religious setting. However, that’s not a benefit they gave their children.

As a consequence, I think it says quite a lot about the Millennials, especially, who join with one religion or another. Their belief is likely to be made of some tough stuff considering their likely background.

It makes sense to me that they would gravitate toward more traditional Christianity rather than the prepackaged, consumer-driven Protestantism of their boomer predecessors. To wit: they can go to a U2 concert whenever they want but the Eucharist can only be found in one place.

 

[Tutorman]

By the way, sorry for my ignorance, what denomination is "Episcopalian" ?

To be completely transparent I am not Episcopalian, I am a Charismatic Episcopalian we are like Charismatic Catholics. Episcopalian proper also known as Anglican was founded by King Henry because he wanted his own way. In Australia you know it as Anglican. Episcopalian s the US name for Anglican.

You’re right. My view of what’s going on is that most boomers were more or less raised in some type of religious setting. However, that’s not a benefit they gave their children.

Some were and some were not. My mom was a baby boomer and she wasn't raised in a particularly religious home and to be honest I do not know a lot of boomers that were raised in a religious setting outside of the older ones I see go to Masses and Churches. Then the boomers had us Gen-x and most of my friends were not at all raised religious and in turn we Gen-X types had millennials who if my generation is any indicator and working among them I am inclined to believe that the stat may not be to far off. Sure the ones who become believers want the Traditional things but from where I sit there are more atheist millennials than there are Christian ones.

 

[Gnarwhal]

You’re right. My view of what’s going on is that most boomers were more or less raised in some type of religious setting. However, that’s not a benefit they gave their children.

Indeed. It seems the counter-culture movement in the 60s and 70s was detrimental on multiple levels. It seems that it not only lead to the unfortunate modern innovations in Holy Mass, but the people themselves looked explicitly and implicitly saw religion as part of the culture that needed to be countered in their movements. Religion represented structure the same as government, and structure was anathema to the hippies. That's a vile disease that still permeates today, with young protestants constantly inventing some kind of structure-less sort of belief system that's as unprohibitive as possible.

To be fair, it's not that every single Boomer is guilty of this but the generation as a whole is generally considered by religious and secular people alike to be responsible for the counter-culture movement. My parents are Boomers (dad was born in '47, mom was born in '53) and they raised my sister and I in a religious home. Albeit an evangelical one. They nevertheless supported my conversion to Catholicism.

It makes sense to me that they would gravitate toward more traditional Christianity rather than the prepackaged, consumer-driven Protestantism of their boomer predecessors. To wit: they can go to a U2 concert whenever they want but the Eucharist can only be found in one place.

Absolutely. I did a lot of research in college on Millennials and what researches say is our uncanny ability to detect "b.s." with marketing, politicking. The context of much of the research revolved around the challenge marketing firms face in trying to market to Millennials, who essentially shrug off everything that's thrown at them. The same thing seems to apply to things like religion, if actually matters to the person then they inevitably begin recognizing the phony and disingenuous nature of protestantism and the evangelical music festivals they call 'church', and the reality of Christ's actual Church.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Indeed. It seems the counter-culture movement in the 60s and 70s was detrimental on multiple levels.

I'll cut the boomers a tiny bit of slack on that. Yeah, they were horrible, especially in the 60's. But they didn't act alone. Somebody put them up to it. For the sake of keeping the peace, we'll just call the boomer-enablers "the media".

My parents are Boomers (dad was born in '47, mom was born in '53) and they raised my sister and I in a religious home. Albeit an evangelical one. They nevertheless supported my conversion to Catholicism.

Must be nice. Some of my family members were supportive. But mostly the reaction is measured by degrees of disapproval. One in particular is convinced I'm bound for hell now.

Absolutely. I did a lot of research in college on Millennials and what researches say is our uncanny ability to detect "b.s." with marketing, politicking.

There's truth in that. It's easier to market a fad to a Millennial than a product, in most cases.

The same thing seems to apply to things like religion, if actually matters to the person then they inevitably begin recognizing the phony and disingenuous nature of protestantism and the evangelical music festivals they call 'church', and the reality of Christ's actual Church.

It isn't my business to question someone else's conversion, of course, but I've wondered if the Millennial converts to traditional Christianity don't realize they're thumbing their noses at their parents.

I find it deliciously ironic that the counter-culture movement of the 60 ultimately sold out in the 70's and turned evangelical worship into a drive-thru religion experience in the 80's and 90's, only so their children could reject that miserable excuse for an "inheritance" and instead embraced everything the original counter-culture rejected.

To be fair, a lot of Millennials have Gen X parents. But the boomers gave birth to their share of Millennials (me, for example) and I would think of my generation's religious views as a well-deserved rude hand gesture to that awful boomer generation... except that's not very charitable, of course, so naturally I don't ever think that.

 

[Gnarwhal]

It isn't my business to question someone else's conversion, of course, but I've wondered if the Millennial converts to traditional Christianity don't realize they're thumbing their noses at their parents.

I recall reading some testimonies from people who converted to Catholicism, and they were fully aware—even resentful in some cases—that their parents either intentionally brought them up in a depleted variation of Christianity, or no religion at all.

I find it deliciously ironic that the counter-culture movement of the 60 ultimately sold out in the 70's and turned evangelical worship into a drive-thru religion experience in the 80's and 90's, only so their children could reject that miserable excuse for an "inheritance" and instead embraced everything the original counter-culture rejected.

It's funny how history can be circular in some ways, isn't it? One generation begins a divergence from orthodoxy and orthopraxy only for the following generation (or the one after that) to return to the fold.

To be fair, a lot of Millennials have Gen X parents. But the boomers gave birth to their share of Millennials (me, for example) and I would think of my generation's religious views as a well-deserved rude hand gesture to that awful boomer generation... except that's not very charitable, of course, so naturally I don't ever think that.

That's a good point.

I think the movie Fight Club best represents where Generation X lies on the spectrum. Where Boomers were essentially rebellious, and the Millennials rebelled against the initial rebellion of the Boomers, Gen X seems to be more angry and lost. In the movie Brad Pitt is preaching to his peers (all Gen Xers) saying, "We're the middle children of history, boys."

Regarding Millennials faith as a reaction to Boomers, I agree with you. Yeah it may not be charitable, but fidelity to the faith might be rude to those who embrace heterodoxy.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I recall reading some testimonies from people who converted to Catholicism, and they were fully aware—even resentful in some cases—that their parents either intentionally brought them up in a depleted variation of Christianity, or no religion at all.

Pretty much. I felt lied to about Mother Church. Lied to in good faith, lied to unknowingly, lied to with the very best of intentions, maybe.

But still lied to.

I think the movie Fight Club best represents where Generation X lies on the spectrum. Where Boomers were essentially rebellious, and the Millennials rebelled against the initial rebellion of the Boomers, Gen X seems to be more angry and lost. In the movie Brad Pitt is preaching to his peers (all Gen Xers) saying, "We're the middle children of history, boys."

As true as all that is, my sympathy only goes so far. At least Gen X (mostly) had the chance to live in a functional United States and seek employment in a serious economy. The Millennials aren't so lucky.

Oh yeah, and tons of debt, let's not forget.

Regarding Millennials faith as a reaction to Boomers, I agree with you. Yeah it may not be charitable, but fidelity to the faith might be rude to those who embrace heterodoxy.

The older I get, the less I think I owe to my elders. Elders they may be but it's folly to confuse them for adults.

At this point, the only line I won't cross is euthanasia. Short of that, I don't really care about the boomers or what happens to them. Whatever their destiny is, it's well deserved and my flag won't be lowered when they finally meet their fate.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Pretty much. I felt lied to about Mother Church. Lied to in good faith, lied to unknowingly, lied to with the very best of intentions, maybe.

But still lied to.

As true as all that is, my sympathy only goes so far. At least Gen X (mostly) had the chance to live in a functional United States and seek employment in a serious economy. The Millennials aren't so lucky.

Oh yeah, and tons of debt, let's not forget.

That's all very true. Sometimes I think from a purely existential standpoint I would've been happier if I had just been born 25-30 years earlier so I could've come of age in the 70s when there was still a reasonable expectation to earn a decent living when you've gone to college.

I just graduated from a state university, only needed to go for two years since I did two years in community college to save money. I still graduated with about $25-30,000 in student debt.

The older I get, the less I think I owe to my elders. Elders they may be but it's folly to confuse them for adults.

At this point, the only line I won't cross is euthanasia. Short of that, I don't really care about the boomers or what happens to them. Whatever their destiny is, it's well deserved and my flag won't be lowered when they finally meet their fate.

I can relate to that to an extent. I definitely feel like I've lost a lot of respect for my elders in the past 10 years. It doesn't mean I'm not courteous to anybody, I just can't wait for them to lose the reigns in a lot of life's arenas.

 

[thecolorsblend]

That's all very true. Sometimes I think from a purely existential standpoint I would've been happier if I had just been born 25-30 years earlier so I could've come of age in the 70s when there was still a reasonable expectation to earn a decent living when you've gone to college.

There was a lot of opportunity back then, you're right. Employees could go to work somewhere with a reasonable expectation of being able to build a stable career there, receive promotions, etc.

At one point, I was making crap wages but still considered myself lucky that my job didn't get off-shored.

But then it got off-shored. Y'know, because some boomer needed to "cut costs". How else could he afford to pay himself another fat bonus?

I just graduated from a state university, only needed to go for two years since I did two years in community college to save money. I still graduated with about $25-30,000 in student debt.

That sucks. But now's a good time to have a degree. The economy is growing and the energy sector in particular is going nuts. Another few quarters of this and Trump will be officially untouchable in 2020. Right now the action is mostly in fossil fuels. But let's cut the crap, green energy is the future and things are REALLY happening there. So you may have a lot to work with if you live in an energy city. Or if you can move to one.

I can relate to that to an extent. I definitely feel like I've lost a lot of respect for my elders in the past 10 years. It doesn't mean I'm not courteous to anybody, I just can't wait for them to lose the reigns in a lot of life's arenas.

Speaking of 2020, my guess is that will be the last election where the boomer vote is courted all that heavily. Gen Z will start becoming an active voting block before then, Millennials will be somewhere in the median and Gen X will probably be at the apex of their electoral abilities.

 

[Gnarwhal]

That sucks. But now's a good time to have a degree. The economy is growing and the energy sector in particular is going nuts. Another few quarters of this and Trump will be officially untouchable in 2020. Right now the action is mostly in fossil fuels. But let's cut the crap, green energy is the future and things are REALLY happening there. So you may have a lot to work with if you live in an energy city. Or if you can move to one.

Yeah the solar industry is bananas right now, I've seen some of the growth numbers, how production and employment in the solar industry have surpassed the fossil fuel industry - crazy!

I got a degree in Media Arts so it's a bit niche, but that's where my talents are. I have a PT job that I'm grateful for, but it's minimum wage and doesn't really provide anything beyond covering my bills. Still, I'm grateful for that.

Speaking of 2020, my guess is that will be the last election where the boomer vote is courted all that heavily. Gen Z will start becoming an active voting block before then, Millennials will be somewhere in the median and Gen X will probably be at the apex of their electoral abilities.

I think that's a very likely scenario.