Catholics only-Difficulty aligning with Church teachings on homosexuality

scraparcs · Jan 7, 2006

I'm having a hard time aligning with what the Catholic Church believes on homosexuality. Let me quote the relevant passages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

CCC said:
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

I want to be true to the deposit of the faith and believe what the Church believes, but I don't understand homosexuality as intrinsically and objectively disordered. I just can't bring myself to really care what sexual orientation one has.

I desperately yearn to be a proud ally, to support gay marriage, to have fun in the gay nightlife. My heart and soul believes, deeply, that there isn't a problem with homosexuality. The problem is, this is in clear contrast with Church teaching.

Is there any way to reconcile things, short of leaving the Catholic Church? I haven't officially joined yet, but I can't imagine anything but joining.

Those so inclined, please keep this all in your prayers. Thanks!

lil~peanut · Jan 7, 2006

Lel, I feel the same way. I don't really care if a person is guy or not. I really don't care if gay people get married. I also feel bad in a way because of the way I feel. lIke I'm doing the church a dis-service. Hmmm, I don't know honey. But I definatly pray for you.

*Starlight* · Jan 7, 2006

Lel said:
I'm having a hard time aligning with what the Catholic Church believes on homosexuality. Let me quote the relevant passages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

I want to be true to the deposit of the faith and believe what the Church believes, but I don't understand homosexuality as intrinsically and objectively disordered. I just can't bring myself to really care what sexual orientation one has.

I desperately yearn to be a proud ally, to support gay marriage, to have fun in the gay nightlife. My heart and soul believes, deeply, that there isn't a problem with homosexuality. The problem is, this is in clear contrast with Church teaching.

Is there any way to reconcile things, short of leaving the Catholic Church? I haven't officially joined yet, but I can't imagine anything but joining.

Those so inclined, please keep this all in your prayers. Thanks!

Hi!

I agree with you about homosexuality, and that's one of the reasons why I'm not a Catholic... Maybe that will be a bad advice, I don't know, but I've heard that the Anglican or Episcopal church is similar to the Catholic Church, but more liberal and that it accepts homosexuals. But I'm not sure about that...

By the way, happy birthday!

scraparcs · Jan 7, 2006

lil~peanut said:
Lel, I feel the same way. I don't really care if a person is guy or not. I really don't care if gay people get married. I also feel bad in a way because of the way I feel. lIke I'm doing the church a dis-service. Hmmm, I don't know honey. But I definatly pray for you.

Exactly, m'dear.

Praying for you too.

scraparcs · Jan 7, 2006

:: Starlight :: said:
Hi!

I agree with you about homosexuality, and that's one of the reasons why I'm not a Catholic... Maybe that will be a bad advice, I don't know, but I've heard that the Anglican or Episcopal church is similar to the Catholic Church, but more liberal and that it accepts homosexuals. But I'm not sure about that...

By the way, happy birthday!

I know, I understand, and it's not bad advice. It's simply not consonant with my beliefs about the Eucharist, the Marian character of the Catholic Church, and the authority of the Catholic Church in general. Heck, I could go for a good Rite I Episcopalian service soon.

JamieGraham · Jan 7, 2006

It is true - the Epsicopal church is more open and liberal.
However- is it really liberal or simply accepting of God's children - all of them - US.

I find it strnage in a sense that it is all based on sex - being Gay that is.
Gay people have hearts, feelings, love and the need for affection and accpetance in a general sense - as all humans do. SEX is generalized on them as it is the focus of the person spewing the focus - think about it. Is this how the evaluate people???

Yes - many gay men have a horrible lifestyle-just as straight men do at times. Put two together and you have a double trouble situation. That is a character and personality issue. Being sexually deviant, cheating, sex with hookers and so on - NOT A GAY ISSUE.

Do you even wonder that gay people think the same about straigt people at times. Men cheating on their wives at a drop of the hat. Bearing children out of "marriage" in a sexula act. Having babies and leaving their wives to struggle on their own while they hook-up with youngeer women. As far as children and gay people - when gay people choose to parent they mean it as they have to go to great efforts to have children.
While many straight people take this for granted -

My point -
DO NOT THROW STONES AT GLASS HOUSES -

Gay people, Straight people and people that are asexual are all human beings.
God's children, your brother and sisters - that is it!

BE YOURSELF - GOD MADE YOU AND HE LOVES YOU.

krstlros · Jan 7, 2006

What people don't understand sometimes is that you can disagree with the Catholic Church and still be a good Catholic. Contray to popular belief.

The exercising of one's sexuality is a choice whether heteral or homosexual. Free Will is given by God to everyone. There are no exceptions to this rule.

I have many friends who are gay and Catholic. And whether they practice their sexuality is something they must resolve with themselves and God, such as those who are single must also decide for themselves. And believe it or not, many of my gay friends do not believe in the right for gay people to marry.

It isn't easy being Cathlic. If it were, everyone would be Catholic. But that's neither here nor there.

What the church is telling us is even though homosexuality, even sexual relations outside of marriage, is contrary to Church teachings, we must treat them with due respect and love. Like everyone else, they are called by God to do His work in the world, and we as His children must not discriminate against them because of their lifestyle.

Merlin · Jan 7, 2006

The teachings of the Church are based on teachings of the Bible.
Now, no one forces you to believe a certain way, but if you wish to be a part of a group, then you should accept the groups philosophy.

ZooMom · Jan 7, 2006

Hi, Lel. I'm probably going to ramble a bit in giving my thoughts, so bear with me.

Firstly...never does the Church say that we are to shun or otherwise reject people who identify themselves as homosexual. All people are to be treated with charity and dignity. There is no clear explanation for homosexual 'orientation', it can stem from any number of factors and is really not the issue. It is the homosexual 'act' that is intrinsically disordered. And it is. Sex, as God has ordered it, has both a unitive and a procreative aspect. Now certainly there are always cases where even a man and woman are not capable of procreating, but that does not negate the intended purpose of sex in the first place, which is to produce offspring. That is the natural order. It is undeniable. *Any* sexual act outside of the Sacrament of Marriage is sinful. Scripture and Tradition are clear that Marriage is between a man and a woman. That is also part of God's Order. 'Male and female He created them...' God created us that way for a reason. There can be no Sacramental Marriage between two men or between two women. Therefore there can be no sexual acts between two men or between two women...or between anyone not married...that is not gravely sinful.

Have I only confused you more?

No, it is not required that you agree with everything the Church teaches. But it is required that you assent to everything the Church teaches. It is neccessary to recognize the greater wisdom of the Church in matters like this, and willingly submit to her authority. Once you can do that, and live by the Church's precepts, you will find that you come to understand more than you thought you would.

Peace be with you!

Sandy

D'Ann · Jan 7, 2006

krstlros said:
What people don't understand sometimes is that you can disagree with the Catholic Church and still be a good Catholic. Contray to popular belief.

The exercising of one's sexuality is a choice whether heteral or homosexual. Free Will is given by God to everyone. There are no exceptions to this rule.

I have many friends who are gay and Catholic. And whether they practice their sexuality is something they must resolve with themselves and God, such as those who are single must also decide for themselves. And believe it or not, many of my gay friends do not believe in the right for gay people to marry.

It isn't easy being Cathlic. If it were, everyone would be Catholic. But that's neither here nor there.

What the church is telling us is even though homosexuality, even sexual relations outside of marriage, is contrary to Church teachings, we must treat them with due respect and love. Like everyone else, they are called by God to do His work in the world, and we as His children must not discriminate against them because of their lifestyle.

Well said.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to krstlros again.

Cat59 · Jan 7, 2006

Lel said:
I'm having a hard time aligning with what the Catholic Church believes on homosexuality. Let me quote the relevant passages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

I want to be true to the deposit of the faith and believe what the Church believes, but I don't understand homosexuality as intrinsically and objectively disordered. I just can't bring myself to really care what sexual orientation one has.

I desperately yearn to be a proud ally, to support gay marriage, to have fun in the gay nightlife. My heart and soul believes, deeply, that there isn't a problem with homosexuality. The problem is, this is in clear contrast with Church teaching.

Is there any way to reconcile things, short of leaving the Catholic Church? I haven't officially joined yet, but I can't imagine anything but joining.

Those so inclined, please keep this all in your prayers. Thanks!

for you!
I'm not going to say anything else, just that I feel for you in your dilemma and I hope the wisdom of some of the people who have already posted will help you in trying to solve this.
Cat

krstlros · Jan 7, 2006

No, it is not required that you agree with everything the Church teaches. But it is required that you assent to everything the Church teaches. It is neccessary to recognize the greater wisdom of the Church in matters like this, and willingly submit to her authority. Once you can do that, and live by the Church's precepts, you will find that you come to understand more than you thought you would.

Well said Sandy.

Caedmon · Jan 7, 2006

You don't have to agree, but you have to assent, and seek to understand, ie., you can disagree with the Church's teachings on contraception, but you may not have contracepted sex, and you should try to understand why the Church says not to.

indigo tree · Jan 7, 2006

But assent means pretty much to agree. I think you mean you can disagree, but still should follow what the church's teachings say. (Am I right?)

I still don't know if I can follow everything the church says.

ZooMom · Jan 7, 2006

indigo tree said:
But assent means pretty much to agree. I think you mean you can disagree, but still should follow what the church's teachings say. (Am I right?)

I still don't know if I can follow everything the church says.

Well, assent means 'agree to follow' or 'willingly submit'...not neccessarily to understand. And often through the grace of humility comes understanding.

I can't follow everything the Church teaches, either. Hey...human here. But I want to, and I try. We are all called to holiness, and that is what the Church teaches us...the right path to get there.

The right way to do something isn't always the easiest or the fastest, but the results are guaranteed. After all...ever watch a man try to assemble something without reading the instructions.

ChristianCenturion · Jan 7, 2006

ZooMom · Jan 7, 2006

ChristianCenturion said:
The fact that this... confession, plea, whatever it is... is posted here rather than here indicates a lot more than you may realize.

Such as? Maybe it just indicates that there are way too many fora here, she wasn't certain it would be allowed in OBOB because of the Rules, and this seemed like a likely spot?

I think it's fine here, but then I'm not one to over-analyze. Lel, let me know if you'd like it moved. It won't be a problem getting a E&M mod to take care of it.

ChristianCenturion · Jan 7, 2006

*Edit to remove:
It seems the thread was moved.

Tenorvoice · Jan 7, 2006

***MOD NOTE***

This thread was moved from E&M on this date, because it was better suited here in the Congregation-Specific Ethics.

JJM · Jan 7, 2006

ZooMom said:
Well, assent means 'agree to follow' or 'willingly submit'...not neccessarily to understand. And often through the grace of humility comes understanding.

I can't follow everything the Church teaches, either. Hey...human here. But I want to, and I try. We are all called to holiness, and that is what the Church teaches us...the right path to get there.

The right way to do something isn't always the easiest or the fastest, but the results are guaranteed. After all...ever watch a man try to assemble something without reading the instructions.

Isn't there a difference between Understanding and Agreeing with. One must not always understand what the church teaches but they must agree.

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