Catholicism

Hello,

I'm not sure if this will help you but "religion" is not the important thing. I believe that God works in the individual. He will guide you and let you know what is right. Humans will simply argue on and on about who is right and who is wrong.

In fact, "religion" has been the cause of more death than war. So continue your study of the bible. Read it, ask questions of the text. Find a local pastor that you feel comfortable with.

I believe that God communicates with us through our feelings as well as through his word. Have you ever met someone and even though you didn't know anything about that person, they just gave off this feeling that made you very uncomfortable? Pay attention to those feelings.

Some call them intuition or psycic ability. I call it God trying to tell you something. So trust your feelings. If you are truley trying to do what's right, God will point the way!

God Bless

Rev_Bill

What the catholics refer to as "The command from Jesus to peter to build the church" can be found in Mt.16:17-20

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.


If you look at the Greek word for "Rock" it looks like this: TTe'rpa this is what we think of when solid object like a cliff face or a heavy stone or foundational slab. There's also another word for "rock" "TTe'rpos" which is loosely translated rolling stone. or a loose stone something that and be picked up and thrown about with the power of one's own hand (A pebble.)

You also have to remember that the names we read in scripture have been changed, and the meanings of those names have been changed as well. When Jesus refers to "Peter" or IIe'ros, he means one who is restless or changeable. (A pebble)

Now with the two distinctions for the word rock let's take another look at that text.



16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,(or the word for pebble) and on this rock (the word meaning solid stone) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

In the revelation given to Simon by God, Jesus was surprised by Simon's answer given all of Simon's short comings. This is why he changed his name to Peter. Meaning he will surprise you. You think his understanding is one place today, but tomorrow it's in another. (Like a loose stone or pebble.)
and the solid stone which Jesus builds his church is not meant to imply that "Pebble" is to be that stone, but Pebble's revelation is that stone in which his church is to be built. "That Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God." This is why Jesus swears the disciples to secrecy, not about "Peter being the pebble," But That he is the son of God.

So I guess the next question would be, Because of all of this does that make the catholics wrong, will they goto hell?

If they were right in what they believe (That Peter and every pope since is a emissary from God. that wields God full authority) then if you weren't a devout catholic and did 110% of what ever they said, you would be doomed to hell.

But because God built his church on Jesus the Christ, and not Simon (The pebble) nor any of the other brother or sisters involved with Jesus during his life, we are saved thru the grace and glory of the sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf. Meaning That every church (deformational or non-denominational) has the potential pit fall of luring unguarded christians, into a method of worshiping the method of worship.. (Things like praying to saints, confessing to a confessor, any number or religious ceremonies, stuff that can't be found in the bible, but are held with the same regard)

Because the "Real church" is built on Jesus, and not when an man or group of men decided to forum a religious clubs... We are free to worship as our hearts see fit. So long as we keep Jesus at the center of our worship and not some method of worship at the center of our worship we will be ok...

This is why Jesus said, "What ever we bound here on earth will be bound in heaven, and what ever we loose here on earth will be loosed in heaven." This statement frees us from any one signal way of worship..

Meaning if your a baptist, and at the center your belief is Jesus, your Good. And if your a catholic and at center of your belief is Jesus your good too... Or any belief system that is built on the "Rock" of Jesus the Christ Your in the clear. It's when we subscribe to a religion, and believe in the power of anyone else except Jesus do we run into a problem.
Because Jesus built his church on Himself (The rock) and not any one man. That principal is also backed up in 1Co.10 1-5

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


ἐκκλησία = a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.


Since there were no churches on earth at the time Jesus said these words to Peter, then it unlikely that it were physical churches he meant, but the "community of Christians" that Peter did gather after the death of Jesus. And nowhere do the bible mention that Peter is a "pope", and nowhere do the bible mention that Peter should have other "popes" following after his death. And Jesus never mentioned any other things that are specific to the Catholic Church and makes it something different from the rest of Christianity.


Acts 3,6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.


Does this remind you of the pope? A man with no gold and silver, and that is doing miracles in the name of Jesus? How can the pope be the follower of Peter, if he do not do what Peter did?


So personally I don't think the pope is the follower of Peter.

“Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.” (Col. 2:8)

This is all religions, including Catholicism.

I asked my mother who was catholic for 25 years, and she told me that she has some problems with catholicism because catholics pray to the saints and the virgin Mary she doesn't think that that is right because we should only pray to God and Jesus.

You can only go to our Heavenly Father through out Lord Jesus Christ. Our Lord Jesus Christ is our Heavenly Father.

Nowhere in His Word does it say that we pray to a spirit of a human being, such as Mary and the Catholic Saints. That is "philosophy and deceit by tradition of men".

The Purgatory isn't Biblical. But, when confessing sins to another brother or sister in our Lord Jesus Christ is Biblical.

All Christians are followers of our Lord Jesus Christ and the walk "The Way" of our Lord Jesus Christ, not the way of human beings doctrine and philosophy.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

wolfgangmozart said:

I've been wondering lately about Catholicism. I'm not very familiar with the Catholic Church, but I know that Peter was the first pope, and since Jesus told Peter to build his church, does that make catholicism the "right" religion?

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Um, Peter was not the first pope. Not the Peter of the NT anyway.

I asked my mother who was catholic for 25 years, and she told me that she has some problems with catholicism because catholics pray to the saints and the virgin Mary she doesn't think that that is right because we should only pray to God and Jesus.

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You've hit the main issue on the head.

She also said that catholics believe that you can go to hell if you don't confess to a priest, even if you are saved by Jesus. I've always been taught that as long as you are saved, you are guaranteed to go to heaven, but that's just what I've been taught by humans. Does the bible support this claim?

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You want to know the read deal about salvation? Salvation is not a one time prayer that we pray. That would be utterly absurd, since Jesus tells us things like, "I am the vine and you are the branches... remain in me." (John 15) Instead, salvation is a past, progressive, and future thing. That is, it is fully accurate for the person following the Bible to the best of their ability and knowledge to say, "I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved." Salvation combines three things- justification, or being made right and sinless before God; sanctification, or the process becoming more like Jesus (growing in Christ); and lastly, glorification, or going to heaven. Basically, follow the Bible and you've got nothing to worry about.
For confession, James tells us to 'confess your sins to one another', and John tells us that 'if you confess your sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness'. In other words, admit when you are wrong to God and to the people involved, if appropriate.

I asked my brother and he said that it doesn't really matter as long as we call ourselves Christians, since catholicism is just a form of Christianity. I guess the non-denominational forms of Christianity would just be a more laid back form of Catholicism?

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Calling ourselves Christians means nothing unless we read, follow, and act upon the Bible's contents. A Christian is literally 'one who follows Christ'. One cannot merely call themselves a Christian and expect it to ring true.

I can't get past the fact that Jesus told Peter to build his church on Earth and Peter was the founder of the catholic church.

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Peter was not the founder of the Catholic Church, he was the founder of the catholic church. Catholic merely means 'worldwide'. He did not start the institution, he is the basis for the worldwide body of believers.


As for the whole denomination thing, let me give you some insight. I am a Christian. When I am not at college, I go to a baptist church. When I am at college, I go to an E-Free church. When I want a good worship service back home, I go to a Lutheran church. It is not the church you go to that matters, what matters is the content being taught. If it is biblical, then go for it. If not, then don't.

Might i suggest that you copy your opening post and put it in the Catholic Forum?

I think Catholics are much more likely to notice your questions if it is posted there, and also more of us will be able to give you the Catholic perspective on the concerns/questions you have. I'd be only too happy (as i'm sure would other Catholics) to respond to you in the Catholic forum, One Bread, One Body, which can be found by clicking THIS link.

If you look at the whole timeline of Christian churches, Catholicism became official very early on. New denominations formed as people disagreed with what was going on in the church. This branching continues to happen, and probably always will. We all came from the same root, the same foundation stone.

Catholics might think of themselves as coming from the first official church, because the branching hadn't happened yet. But Protestants were as much a part of that timeline as Catholics. As said above, Catholic is a term for universal.

Protestant - look at the root word. Protesting, or publicly declaring something that didn't seem right at the time. Martin Luther believed that Christians are justified by faith alone, and not by works... and that the Bible is the source of truth, rather than religious leaders.

Justification by faith is scriptural. It does not mean that the Catholic church is not scriptural, but that Luther was addressing some warped teachings of the time. Religious leaders were sometimes used by the state to control people. If believers keep the Bible as their foundational truth, then it is much easier to prevent getting swayed and manipulated by deceitful intruders.

And that doesn't mean Luther was always right. He started a correction that needed to be made. As time went on, new corrections had to be made, new reformations came up, and new denominations had to be formed, to make a place for followers of these reformations.

Not feeling quite Evangelical... well, I don't think of EVFree's as matching with the contemporary term for Evangelical. Evangelicals have had some bad press lately. EV Free is a sort of denominational structure where non-denominational groups can form a church and come under a larger body. There are belief tenets, but they're fairly general. And the denomination proper does not control the actions of the individual churches. So the church is made up of the people, and takes on the character of its members and staff.

It would be worth spending some time reading what the Bible says about salvation. Just for yourself. Churches can tell you all sorts of things, but if you want to make sure you have God's opinion, then get as close to the source as you can.

I would suggest reading the book of John, and Hebrews, and Romans (any order). If it's easier, find an audio version of it.

Romans


http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/audio/

I look the Catholicism up in the dictionary on-line. Here it is.


Wikipedia

As a Christian ecclesiastical term, Catholic—from the Greek adjective καθολικός, meaning "general" or "universal"[1]—is described in the Oxford English Dictionary as follows:
~Church, (originally) whole body of Christians; ~, belonging to or in accord with (a) this, (b) the church before separation into Greek or Eastern and Latin or Western, (c) the Latin Church after that separation, (d) the part of the Latin Church that remained under the Roman obedience after the Reformation, (e) any church (as the Anglican) claiming continuity with (b)."[2]

Leaving aside the historical meanings indicated under (b) and (c) above, the Oxford English Dictionary thus associates present-day Catholicism with:
(a) "the whole body of Christians". The actual extension of Catholicism in this sense varies with the different understandings of what it means to be a Christian.
(d) "the part of the Latin Church that remained under the Roman obedience after the Reformation", i.e. the Roman Catholic Church. This definition of Catholicism should be expanded to cover the Eastern particular Churches that are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome, and that the Church in question sees as no less part of Catholicism than the Latin particular Church.
(e) "any church (as the Anglican) claiming continuity with the church before separation into Greek or Eastern and Latin or Western". Churches that make this claim of continuity include not only those of the Anglican Communion, but, among others, the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Assyrian Church of the East. The claim of continuity may be based on Apostolic Succession, especially in conjunction with adherence to the Nicene Creed. Some interpret Catholicism as adherence to the traditional beliefs that Protestant Reformers denied (see, for example, the Oxford Movement).

Pray and ask God to guilde you in your dicision, You will find what you need through the Father.

Continuity-- that's it.