Catholicism and morals

[Hoonbaba]

Question:  Is it possible to compromise Catholics morals, yet hold on to all the dogmas of the Church and still remain Catholic??

-Jason

 

[KC Catholic]

IMHO - No.

This may sound like a hardline stance...but if you are going to be Catholic, you have to be Catholic all the way. You may have one or two items you disagree with the Church about, but much more than that and the relationship tends to get strained.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Hi KC,

In case you're wondering, I agree with the Church's teachings

But anyway, I just curious about this issue =)

-Jason

 

[KC Catholic]

Today at 03:21 PM Hoonbaba said this in Post #3

Hi KC,

In case you're wondering, I agree with the Church's teachings

But anyway, I just curious about this issue =)

-Jason

No...I figured.

It's a fair question, one asked more often than you know.

 

[artnalex]

Question: Is it possible to compromise Catholics morals, yet hold on to all the dogmas of the Church and still remain Catholic??

IMO, Yes!

Just not an obedient Catholic. There are individuals that have problem with the "assent of will" on certain dogmas of the Church, and as a result are disobedient, however, they are still Catholics. What they have to do now is "assent" to the teachings of the Church, despite not understanding them or agreeing with them. They have to pray for the Holy Spirit to help then understand the Church's teaching clearly.

Contraception is a teaching that many Catholics have a problem with, yet they believe in the Catholic Church. They just find it extremely difficult to give full assent, and as a result are not in communion with the Church at that point. It doesn't mean that they are now Protestants.

Sex before marriage is another.

 

[geocajun]

Yesterday at 02:31 PM Hoonbaba said this in Post #1

Question:  Is it possible to compromise Catholics morals, yet hold on to all the dogmas of the Church and still remain Catholic??

-Jason

Hoonbaba, I am having a hard time deciding where to begin on this

The Church has not bound Catholics to her prudential judgements, but Catholic's must give them the proper consideration when informed of them. A Catholic cannot reject a defined truth (dogma) - once informed that it has been defined - and remain in communion with the Church.
It would help if you provided an example of a Catholic compromising Catholic morals.

The way I see it is this, if a person is baptized Catholic (or converted), they are Catholic. There are good Catholics and bad Catholics, and those who are not faithful to the teachings of the Church fall into the latter category. I do not consider them to be non-Catholics for it though.

hope that helps.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Yea I noticed there's a wide spectrum of Catholics from the really awesome Catholics like Pope John Paul II, and well...not so good Catholics...which seems to filter out the good in the secular world. No offense to anyone of course

-Jason

 

[panterapat]

Yes and No and Yes and No.

Yes, we are all sinners and compromise in practice.

No we can't compromise Catholic morals in belief

Yes, the Church teaches that with a "well informed conscience" the individual conscience is the final authority.

No, this does not give individual autonomy for a "well informed conscience" is one that knows and adheres to Catholic bliefs.

Confused yet???

Patrick

 

[sklippstein]

Does one have to agree with ALL catholic doctrine and teachings in order to be considered Catholic? And if they do disagree with some of the teachings/doctrines.......are they now herectics?

 

[Hoonbaba]

Today at 01:42 PM sklippstein said this in Post #9

Does one have to agree with ALL catholic doctrine and teachings in order to be considered Catholic? And if they do disagree with some of the teachings/doctrines.......are they now herectics?

I think I remember reading how all Catholics must agree with the Church's dogmas and morals.  But I think some other things can be debated until they're defined.

-Jason

 

[artnalex]

I think I remember reading how all Catholics must agree with the Church's dogmas and morals. But I think some other things can be debated until they're defined.

Not exactly. Obedient Catholics must assent to the teachings of the Church, regardless of whether or not they agree with the teachings. This is called "religious assent", which is to say that we believe the Church to be infallible in its teachings on faith and morals - hence, whether or not we agree, we must obey the teachings.

I am fairly certain that is correct, although if I am wrong anyone, please correct me.

 

[panterapat]

You are correct.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Today at 04:08 AM artnalex said this in Post #11



Not exactly. Obedient Catholics must assent to the teachings of the Church, regardless of whether or not they agree with the teachings. This is called "religious assent", which is to say that we believe the Church to be infallible in its teachings on faith and morals - hence, whether or not we agree, we must obey the teachings.

I am fairly certain that is correct, although if I am wrong anyone, please correct me.

I thought there was no official position the Church holds in regards to the 6 days of creation (?)

-jason

 

[Greeter]

Wow, neat thread.  It reminds me of a question I have been wondering about.

Is it ok for a Catholic to support something the Vatican might not support?

I don't know if this is true or not but someone recently told me that there were a couple instances where Arch Bishops told a couple of politicians(supposedly our Senate Minority Leader (Tom Daschle- hopefully I am spelling his name correctly) & a Californian politician) that they couldn't receive communion and shouldn't even refer to themselves as Catholic until they stopped backing Pro Choice issues.  Is this correct?

I know (or at least think I do ) that the Vatican is very much against abortion and thus Pro Choice but how does that play into Catholics and U.S. politics?  Does the Vatican's stand on abortion fall into the deposit or dogma category or would it rate something lower such as devotion?

Are there any religious or moral concerns for a Catholic who supports a politician who is backing the Pro Choice issue?  Or does the Vatican find fault with a politician supporting abortion, but they wouldn't find fault with one of their supporters?

The reason I ask, is that I have heard that Catholics traditionally vote democratic but was wondering if that would change considering the Vaticans stance on abortion and the recent vote of support all the democratic presidential nominees gave to the Pro Choice movement.

 

[geocajun]

Today at 01:46 PM Greeter said this in Post #14

Is it ok for a Catholic to support something the Vatican might not support?

Yes, a good example of this would be the war in iraq. A faithful Catholic can disagree with the Church's prudential judgement on the war in iraq because Catholics are not bound to the Church's prudential judgements.
Prudential judgements do not include things such as abortion and contraception which are defined by the Church as objectively disordered acts. In a case where something is defined, a Catholic must adhere to it.
Even Popes can speak on matters of faith and morals and only be expressing their personal opinions, not that of the magesterium, and may not be speaking infallibly.

 

[Greeter]

Today at 06:48 PM geocajun said this in Post #15



Yes, a good example of this would be the war in iraq. A faithful Catholic can disagree with the Church's prudential judgement on the war in iraq because Catholics are not bound to the Church's prudential judgements.
Prudential judgements do not include things such as abortion and contraception which are defined by the Church as objectively disordered acts. In a case where something is defined, a Catholic must adhere to it.
Even Popes can speak on matters of faith and morals and only be expressing their personal opinions, not that of the magesterium, and may not be speaking infallibly.

Thank You for clearing that up for me.

 

 

[panterapat]

If all Catholics voted PROLIFE then every election would be won by PROLIFE people. The Catholics are the swing voters.

NO CATHOLIC SHOULD EVER VOTE FOR A CANDIDATE WHO SUPORTS ABORTION!

I will quote here from "Declaration on Procured Abortion", issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"It must in any case be clearly understood that whatever may be laid down by civil law in this matter, man can never obey a law which is in itself immoral, and such is the case of a law which would admit in principle the liceity of abortion. Nor can he take part in a propagana campaign in favor of such a law, or vote for it. Moreover, he may not collaborate in its application...

...On the contrary, it is the task of law to pursue a reform of society and of conditions of life in all milieux, starting with the most deprived, so that always and everywhere it may be possible to give every child coming into this world a welcome worthy of a person...

...a whole positive policy must be put into force so that there will always be a concrete, honorable and possible alternative to abortion."

NO CATHOLIC SHOULD EVER VOTE FOR A CANDIDATE WHO SUPORTS ABORTION!

In Christ, Patrick

 

[artnalex]

quote:
Today at 04:08 AM artnalex said this in Post #11



Not exactly. Obedient Catholics must assent to the teachings of the Church, regardless of whether or not they agree with the teachings. This is called "religious assent", which is to say that we believe the Church to be infallible in its teachings on faith and morals - hence, whether or not we agree, we must obey the teachings.

I am fairly certain that is correct, although if I am wrong anyone, please correct me.

I thought there was no official position the Church holds in regards to the 6 days of creation (?)

-jason

Jason,
the Church has no official position in regards to the 6 days of creation, however, that does not conflict with what I posted earlier, as my post spoke of morals and faith. The topic of "Creation" itself is not a matter of morals or faith. Whether or not you believe the account of the 6 days of creation to be figurative or literal, your faith in the Trinity should not be compromised.

 

[panterapat]

"Is it possible to compromise Catholics morals, yet hold on to all the dogmas of the Church and still remain Catholic??"

Yes, you can do this. It is called sinning!

In Christ, Patrick

 

[Credo]

I thought there was no official position the Church holds in regards to the 6 days of creation (?)

-jason


Jason,
the Church has no official position in regards to the 6 days of creation, however, that does not conflict with what I posted earlier, as my post spoke of morals and faith. The topic of "Creation" itself is not a matter of morals or faith. Whether or not you believe the account of the 6 days of creation to be figurative or literal, your faith in the Trinity should not be compromised.

This reminds me of what St. Augustine (I think it was him) said:
"In things defined, unity; in things undefined, liberty; in all things, charity." Or something to that effect.

Believing in a literal 6 days of creation would fall into the undefined category.