Catholic way

Phil 1:21 · Dec 21, 2017

Yarddog said:
My simple reason is God's calling. That is not to take a dig at my non-Catholic brethren.

I wouldn't consider that a dig at all. Our stories are very similar, but the denominations are reversed.

I was raised in the RCC -- parochial school, catechism, baptism, confession, communion, confirmation, altar boy, blah-bah-blah. I spent most of my childhood and early adult life questioning why we were supposed to believe certain things. The whole thing seemed like the word of the church passed off as the word of God. I drifted away from the RCC and eventually Christianity, because all I knew of Christianity was the RCC.

By the grace of God He led me to a friend who would eventually lead me back to the Lord. Once I started studying scripture I understood why my upbringing in the RCC made little sense to me...because so much of what I was taught was either not in scripture or in defiance of it. Through my friend, God also led me to a church that preached from the Bible, the word of God. The first time I walked through the door the Holy Spirit called me to turn my life over to Jesus, and my life hasn't been the same since.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 21, 2017

Antig said:
Can I ask those that are Catholic why you chose the Catholic route and those that are not why you didn'?

My family are Catholic. Strong Catholics. Irish Catholics too! Lol

I have labelled my self here as a Christian. I was baptised and brought into the Catholic faith as a child (7yrs old). Now, as an older adult I am being drawn into the faith but it has been many many years since I left on that day of my first of Holy Communion!

I drifted away from the church. That was approx 40 plus years ago.

I didn't want to post in the predominantly Catholic section as I want my thread open to everyone to post.

I guess I am searching for the truth, or a nudge in the right direction or even just good solid Christian advice. I have my own views on the subject too but want to see how others decided. Thank you

I'm not catholic, because I wasn't born catholic, and haven't received any revelation regarding the extra biblical revelations the catholics have had. I am a Christian but haven't found a tradition yet, and not sure that I will, just have to wait and see.

I recall reading the catholic catechism in the past, if you want to read up on it, there's a copy on the Vatican's website.
Catechism of the Catholic Church

Antig · Dec 21, 2017

Yarddog said:
My simple reason is God's calling. That is not to take a dig at my non-Catholic brethren.

I was raise a Baptist but began having issues when we got a "fire and brimstone" minister. It seemed that all he talked about was condemnation of anyone who had any sin. That just wasn't what I was hearing in our Sunday school classes. So, I quit when I was about 12-13 years old.

I bounced around a number of different churches as I grew older but settled into television evangelists.

I married a Catholic girl and attended Mass with her, I really enjoyed the worship but didn't like some of the dogma, mainly because of the preaching I heard on TV.

Enter God. We had been having a lot of issues in our marriage and as I prayed for help I suddenly heard a very distinct voice saying that only through faith would my marriage work. That was the first time that I heard the voice of God speaking.

I thought that I needed to get her to leave the Catholic Church and follow my ways. after all, I HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD. Wrong.

I was the problem because my faith was actually in myself and not God.

My marriage failed and I was so devastated that I contemplated suicide. Laying on my kitchen floor and a broken man, I cried out to God. I asked what I could do to fix the issue when suddenly God gave me a vision. I suddenly began seeing many of the things which I done wrong and many of the things which I had failed to do right, and the latter numbered so much higher.

This drove me even deeper into my own torment and I cried out again. Suddenly I began to feel this amazing feeling of being loved in a way I had never felt before. God was holding me, comforting me, and showing me a small part of his enormous love for his children.

I asked what I needed to do to keep from falling back into my prideful ways and I again heard his voice saying "Get baptized and fellowship with other Christians". I also knew that he wanted me to join the Catholic Church. I knew that this would challenge me because of the differences between what they taught and what I had been taught.

That was almost 40 years ago and God has led me to understanding Catholic doctrine. I have not accepted Catholic doctrine because the Church says to. I accept the doctrine when God shows that it is worthy of belief.

It is truly wonderful to attend Mass and worship Jesus and listen to the message of Christ's love. I have never heard a single sermon condemning anyone. All is centered on God's love and that resonates within me.

God Bless.

Waw! That is so moving and special. Thanks for sharing this testimony. It's amazing

Yarddog · Dec 21, 2017

Phil 1:21 said:
I wouldn't consider that a dig at all. Our stories are very similar, but the denominations are reversed.

I was raised in the RCC -- parochial school, catechism, baptism, confession, communion, confirmation, altar boy, blah-bah-blah. I spent most of my childhood and early adult life questioning why we were supposed to believe certain things. The whole thing seemed like the word of the church passed off as the word of God. I drifted away from the RCC and eventually Christianity, because all I knew of Christianity was the RCC.

By the grace of God He led me to a friend who would eventually lead me back to the Lord. Once I started studying scripture I understood why my upbringing in the RCC made little sense to me...because so much of what I was taught was either not in scripture or in defiance of it. Through my friend, God also led me to a church that preached from the Bible, the word of God. The first time I walked through the door the Holy Spirit called me to turn my life over to Jesus, and my life hasn't been the same since.

I am certainly glad that you found a life of faith in Christ but to say that what you may have heard was in defiance of scripture is basically the interpretation of a particular church.

There are things taught which are not in scripture but this is true of all Churches which adhere to the traditions they have been taught from past founders of their Church.

Though, long ago, the Catholic Church didn't encourage Catholics to read the Bible on their own time, that has changed and the Church has encouraged Bible study since before Vatican II. Of course, each Parish may be different and not push Bible study or may not have many involved.

We are all encouraged to arrive early enough for Mass in order to read the Bible verses for the service. In most cases, the priests or deacons are quite good at giving a sermon which ties the verses into our personal lives.

I do pray that you look at all who embrace Jesus through God's Spirit as your brethen, regardless of their Church.

God bless

Phil 1:21 · Dec 21, 2017

Yarddog said:
I am certainly glad that you found a life of faith in Christ but to say that what you may have heard was in defiance of scripture is basically the interpretation of a particular church.

Not to go down a rabbit hole, but a lot of those same topics have been debated here. Even the staunchest of RC supporters thus far has been unable to provide scriptural support.

Yarddog said:
I do pray that you look at all who embrace Jesus through God's Spirit as your brethen, regardless of their Church.

Of course. Shouldn't we all?

Major1 · Dec 21, 2017

Antig said:
Thank you.
K
I have been Looking into it all. I can't say I agree with you on all your points though.

Can I ask? Which denomination do you belong? Thank you

Listen my dear friend. The difference between me and the Catholic representation here is that I WANT YOU TO DO THE BIBLE INVESTIGATION on what I say to you. I do not have a dog in this hunt.

PLEASE DO NOT ACCEPT WHAT I SAY AS THE TRUTH. YOU do the work. YOU look up Bible doctrine.

Take a Catholic doctrine lets say one that is easy, say the Catholic doctrine of ............Salvation.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by baptismal regeneration and is maintained through the Catholic sacraments unless a willful act of sin is committed that breaks the state of sanctifying grace.

Just do the google search of "Roman Catholic Doctrine of salvation compared to the Bible Doctrine of Salvation"and see what you find.

I was raised in the Charismatic Pentecostal denomination, with then spending time in the Catholic denomination. BY the grace of God I was able to escape both of them by reading and studying the Bible!!!!

For the sake of this web site I belong to a Christian non-denominational Bible believing church as it reduces the arguments that can be made.

Major1 · Dec 21, 2017

Yarddog said:
I am certainly glad that you found a life of faith in Christ but to say that what you may have heard was in defiance of scripture is basically the interpretation of a particular church.

There are things taught which are not in scripture but this is true of all Churches which adhere to the traditions they have been taught from past founders of their Church.

Though, long ago, the Catholic Church didn't encourage Catholics to read the Bible on their own time, that has changed and the Church has encouraged Bible study since before Vatican II. Of course, each Parish may be different and not push Bible study or may not have many involved.

We are all encouraged to arrive early enough for Mass in order to read the Bible verses for the service. In most cases, the priests or deacons are quite good at giving a sermon which ties the verses into our personal lives.

There are things taught which are not in scripture but this is true of all Churches which adhere to the traditions they have been taught from past founders of their Church.

God bless

I have to disagree with you as you stated .............
"There are things taught which are not in scripture but this is true of all Churches which adhere to the traditions they have been taught from past founders of their Church."

That simply is not true. IT MAY BE true of Catholic churches but what you just said makes it clear that you have not been involved in Bible believing Christian churches.

But then I do agree completely with you in that...............
"We need to pray for everyone no matter what our denominational choices are".

Yarddog · Dec 21, 2017

Phil 1:21 said:
Not to go down a rabbit hole, but a lot of those same topics have been debated here. Even the staunchest of RC supporters thus far has been unable to provide scriptural support.

Well, I don't know what topic you refer to but something being taught by the Apostles and not being in scripture is quite different to it being "in defiance" to scripture.

Of course. Shouldn't we all?

Yes but I have had people sit in my living room and embrace what I was saying but then tell me that they were taught that all Catholics we're going to hell. Hopefully, they left understanding that they were taught incorrectly.

God bless

Phil 1:21 · Dec 21, 2017

Yarddog said:
Well, I don't know what topic you refer to but something being taught by the Apostles and not being in scripture is quite different to it being "in defiance" to scripture.

Yep.

Yarddog said:
Yes but I have had people sit in my living room and embrace what I was saying but then tell me that they were taught that all Catholics we're going to hell. Hopefully, they left understanding that they were taught incorrectly.

Well, that's pretty silly. Kind of like in parochial school when we were told that only Catholics go to heaven, despite having a fair number of protestant classmates.

Yarddog · Dec 21, 2017

Major1 said:
That simply is not true. IT MAY BE true of Catholic churches but what you just said makes it clear that you have not been involved in Bible believing Christian churches.

The Catholic Church is a Bible believing Church but what I said is true.

[/quote]
But then I do agree completely with you in that...............
"We need to pray for everyone no matter what our denominational choices are".[/QUOTE]
Yes, indeed.

Yarddog · Dec 21, 2017

Phil 1:21 said:
Well, that's pretty silly. Kind of like in parochial school when we were told that only Catholics go to heaven, despite having a fair number of protestant classmates.

Not sure what parochial school taught that but it is not Catholic teaching.

Phil 1:21 · Dec 21, 2017

Yarddog said:
Not sure what parochial school taught that but it is not Catholic teaching.

Well, it certainly was when I grew up in the Catholic churches in our neighborhood. I guess they took that "no salvation outside the church" thing pretty seriously. Ironically enough, I've actually been called a "rank heretic" and unsaved on this very forum for leaving the RCC. I guess some folks didn't get the memo.

Antig · Dec 21, 2017

Major1 said:
Listen my dear friend. The difference between me and the Catholic representation here is that I WANT YOU TO DO THE BIBLE INVESTIGATION on what I say to you. I do not have a dog in this hunt.

PLEASE DO NOT ACCEPT WHAT I SAY AS THE TRUTH. YOU do the work. YOU look up Bible doctrine.

Take a Catholic doctrine lets say one that is easy, say the Catholic doctrine of ............Salvation.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by baptismal regeneration and is maintained through the Catholic sacraments unless a willful act of sin is committed that breaks the state of sanctifying grace.

Just do the google search of "Roman Catholic Doctrine of salvation compared to the Bible Doctrine of Salvation"and see what you find.

I was raised in the Charismatic Pentecostal denomination, with then spending time in the Catholic denomination. BY the grace of God I was able to escape both of them by reading and studying the Bible!!!!

For the sake of this web site I belong to a Christian non-denominational Bible believing church as it reduces the arguments that can be made.

Yes, I see. I agree that the Catholic view on salvation seems correct. It fits together like a jigsaw. I can see how it ties in with the Bible. Thank you

Yarddog · Dec 21, 2017

Phil 1:21 said:
Well, it certainly was when I grew up in the Catholic churches in our neighborhood.

Sorry but no. It was not Catholic teaching when you grew up or in your neighborhood. Now, someone at your parish may have been teaching it incorrectly but that doesn't make it Catholic teaching. Many times people will misread doctrine or not read it all or not understand it. This is why the Catholic Church asks Catholics not to engage in debates involving doctrine unless they have been trained properly. (More damage than good can be done)

I guess they took that "no salvation outside the church" thing pretty seriously.

Yes. A common point of misunderstanding among Catholics.

Ironically enough, I've actually been called a "rank heretic" on this very forum for leaving the RCC.

Another thing the Church frowns on.

I guess some folks didn't get the memo.

More like, never took the time to understand and we're just too, too stubborn.

Phil 1:21 · Dec 21, 2017

Yarddog said:
Sorry but no. It was not Catholic teaching when you grew up or in your neighborhood. Now, someone at your parish...

...the bishop, priests, the nuns, the teachers etc. Like I said, I'm not looking to derail this thread, but even articles on Cathoic.com affirm this belief (although they do put in some neat little loopholes).

Albion · Dec 21, 2017

Phil 1:21 said:
Yep.Well, that's pretty silly. Kind of like in parochial school when we were told that only Catholics go to heaven, despite having a fair number of protestant classmates.

Yes, that's correct. To be sure, it no longer is; but it formerly was as you said.

Antig · Dec 21, 2017

Jesus saves. Believe and do as Jesus taught and be saved.

Major1 · Dec 21, 2017

Antig said:
Yes, I see. I agree that the Catholic view on salvation seems correct. It fits together like a jigsaw. I can see how it ties in with the Bible. Thank you

You can see how the Catholic view fits the Bible like a jigsaw?????

Where then in your Bible did you see that YOU have to do something to be saved as is taught by the RCC?

Will you please post the Book, chapter and verse for me please?

Major1 · Dec 21, 2017

Yarddog said:
Sorry but no. It was not Catholic teaching when you grew up or in your neighborhood. Now, someone at your parish may have been teaching it incorrectly but that doesn't make it Catholic teaching. Many times people will misread doctrine or not read it all or not understand it. This is why the Catholic Church asks Catholics not to engage in debates involving doctrine unless they have been trained properly. (More damage than good can be done)

Yes. A common point of misunderstanding among Catholics.

Another thing the Church frowns on.

More like, never took the time to understand and we're just too, too stubborn.

You have got to be kidding us!!!!

Major1 · Dec 21, 2017

Yarddog said:
Not sure what parochial school taught that but it is not Catholic teaching.

Really????

Here are some modern documents to read on this matter.
Vatican II Lumen Gentium 14-16
Catechism THE ENTIRE SECTION ON THE HOLY SPIRIT
Dominus Iesus

You can read the historical pronouncements in THE CHRISTIAN FAITH: In the Doctrinal Documents of the Catholic Church by Dupuis.

The Catholic Church teaches that
1. The Catholic Church is the Ark outside of which no one at all is saved.
2. One enters into the Catholic Church by baptism, which may be by water blood or desire.
3. Religious Truth exists outside of the Church, but these exist as preparation for the Gospel and entrance into the Catholic Church.
4. No organization besides the Catholic Church brings about salvation. They may have elements that help in salvation, but those organizations are not by themselves salvific.
5. Much of the time, other religions have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and have followed demons (read Lumen Gentium 16)
6. An individual is not punished for not entering the Catholic Church or knowing Christ if they did not have the capability for knowing these things or did not have the reasonable expectation for finding out the truth. All people are obliged however to find and seek the truth.
7. An individual who dies before entering the Church MAY be saved if the individual was inculpable for not knowing Christ or the Church, tried to do Gods will to the best of their knowledge, and they had an implicit desire to enter the Church and know Christ and this implicit desire must be informed by God's grace.

Read Ratzingers Called to Communion and Principles of Catholic THeology:Building Stones for a Fundamental Theology

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