Ambrose was right. The USCCB is timidly trying to do the right thing as well. With a lot of internal and external resistance. The internal resistance is led by a few pope Francis appointees. The external resistance seems well coordinated with the internal resistance. It seems politics over morality for those resisters. We need another Ambrose.Biden is advocating for more abortion and for it to be funded by the tax payer. How is he not responsible if he manages to get this policy through? A policy which will result in more aborted children and not less.
But why does the action of what Theodosius warrant the Church getting involved? Death is occurring in both cases but it is in the purview of the secular authorities, not divine authorities? To distinguish between the two and argue Ambrose was right and the USCCB is wrong makes little sense to me.
Where has any of them made any such claim that they would do so?I do think that conservative Catholics were disappointed that Coney Barrett and Roberts didn't rule that the Catholic Charities Philadelphia case meant that the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, Hobby Lobby, Chick Fil A, and My Pillow could stop serving gays.
He claimed to be a Christian. If he never claimed to be a Christian he would not have been excommunicated for his scandalous behavior.Because Theodosius made Christianity the religion of Rome.
And Ambrose did exactly the right thing.What he ordered was direct murder.
He says he is Catholic and should be excluded from communion because of his scandalous behavior.Now, should Biden be barred from receiving Holy Communion ? That's up to the Bishops, but I have had a problem with Biden dropping his support for the Hyde Amendment just when he decided to run for president. He's come out more strongly in support of keeping abortion legal since then.
In fact, he has stated he wants to make Roe V Wade locked into federal law.
So, yeah I have problems with Biden's claim to be a Catholic.
It IS up to his bishop in his home in Delaware or in his temporary home in Washingto DC. You are right that it's not up to us. We don't get a vote. But we can expect a little Eucharistic coherence from our bishop's conference. Sad thing is that the bishop's conference isn't very functional any more due to the weaponizing of the Eucharist by certain bishops and cardinals who put their politics over their faith. They see no problem with a Catholic who pushes to make abortion a positive part of Federal law. They see no problem with a Catholic who is actively destroying the Hyde Amendment. They see no problem with an executive branch going after the Little Sisters of the Poor all over again. So it's actually up to a bishop in Delaware and a cardinal in DC. And it looks like they have already decided. It shouldn't be that way, but we live in incoherent times and now belong to an increasingly incoherent Church. At least the majority of bishops are on the right page, but they have been emasculated by the Biden bishops.But again, it will be up to the Bishops, not me.
I tell my Democratic friends all the time that progress is being held hostage by single issue abortion voters.
But I also realize, to my sorrow, that loads of Catholics love their guns (shudder) as much as they hate abortion. They think minimum wage workers are overpaid. That universal health care is socialism. That the former president was someone they would vote for.
And then I get depressed. I dream that if we could just defuse the abortion issue we would have a just society. But a significant percentage of pro-life voters honestly and sincerely don't care about everything else.
If I dwell on it I lose my faith in humanity.
Do you tell your Democratic friends you oppose abortion? That's a little bit different thing to tell. My experience as a Democrat was that they didn't want to hear anything against abortion and they moved to exclude people like me.I tell my Democratic friends all the time that progress is being held hostage by single issue abortion voters.
I think you exaggerate.But I also realize, to my sorrow, that loads of Catholics love their guns (shudder) as much as they hate abortion. They think minimum wage workers are overpaid. That universal health care is socialism. That the former president was someone they would vote for.
We pro=life people have prioritized the most important over lesser things. And if we could just ban abortions many other things would resolve fairly quickly. But the polarization means we aren't going forward. We are rather quickly now destroying our democracy because of abortion and race and sexual preference. I don't expect democracy to survive. Banning abortion might give us a chance. But even there I think if we did that one good thing there would be riots and burning and mayhem. Democracy is dying. Maybe already a walking dead thing. And in big part to the injustice of killing innocent human beings. That is not justice. There is no way it should have been tolerated.And then I get depressed. I dream that if we could just defuse the abortion issue we would have a just society. But a significant percentage of pro-life voters honestly and sincerely don't care about everything else.
Put your faith in God. Faith in humanity is a misplaced faith.If I dwell on it I lose my faith in humanity.
I wonder if Episcopalians complain about him.Gorsuch is Episcopalian.
Why in the world would we just shut up and go away? So you and yours can go on implementing your own agenda?I tell my Democratic friends all the time that progress is being held hostage by single issue abortion voters.
But I also realize, to my sorrow, that loads of Catholics love their guns (shudder) as much as they hate abortion. They think minimum wage workers are overpaid. That universal health care is socialism. That the former president was someone they would vote for.
And then I get depressed. I dream that if we could just defuse the abortion issue we would have a just society. But a significant percentage of pro-life voters honestly and sincerely don't care about everything else.
If I dwell on it I lose my faith in humanity.
I don't see how our faith (or convictions for those non-believers) cannot guide policy decisions......unless a person has true split personality.......
And that's what I have realized.
If Roe is overturned, then conservatives will go after birth control.
They never mention in vitro fertilization, because infertile couples garner sympathy, and some infertile women blame abortion for the lack of adoptable healthy white infants.
TBT, couples using IVF are far more likely to be premeditative and calculating than a pregnant woman under duress and strain. They are the ones who might fertilize six embryos and use only two. Or they may implant three embryos, hoping two will be viable, and having selective abortion if all three implant.
These embryos are pre-screened before implantation, at least for gender and possibly genetic disorders.
Why are we calling 15 year-olds baby killers and never mentioning affluent couples creating more embryos than they will bring to birth in order to improve their odds?
While I would never call abortion murder, the malice of forethought in IVF really concerns me.
The Comstock laws were passed by Protestants. And every brand of Christian up to 1930 was against contraception. Every denomination. Are you Catholic or are you in favor of contraception?If Roe is overturned, then some conservatives will go after birth control.
Liberals passed IVF legalization laws.Some never mention in vitro fertilization, because infertile couples garner sympathy, and some infertile women blame abortion for the lack of adoptable healthy white infants.
TBT, couples using IVF are far more likely to be premeditative and calculating than a pregnant woman under duress and strain. They are the ones who might fertilize six embryos and use only two. Or they may implant three embryos, hoping two will be viable, and having selective abortion if all three implant.
These embryos are pre-screened before implantation, at least for gender and possibly genetic disorders.
Why are we calling 15 year-olds baby killers and never mentioning affluent couples creating more embryos than they will bring to birth in order to improve their odds?
You should call abortion murder. And the 'doctors' murderers. They are. The pro-life movement has consistently opposed IVF. It's your political buddies that have been for it, and for surrogate parenting where mostly poor women rent out their wombs for rich people to exploit. The pro-life movement has been against that too.While I would never call abortion murder, the malice of forethought in IVF really concerns me.
As I said, sadly, end abortion and many pro-lifers won't say, "Whew! Hallelujah! Now we can take on the long laundry list of injustices people experience in their next 80 years!"
No! They'll go after birth control. And you have just illustrated that beautifully.
If we are looking for allies in the fight against climate change, hunger, lack of medical care, war, or for helping victims of racial injustice or ethnic cleansing, we need to look elsewhere.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.
From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.71
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.72
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.73
2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion.
This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.
Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.74
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves.
Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.75
2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.
The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.
"A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"76 "by the very commission of the offense,"77 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.78
The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy.
Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.
2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:
"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority.
These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin.
Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."79
"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law.
When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined....
As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."80
Why do you keep deflecting?As I said, sadly, end abortion and many pro-lifers won't say, "Whew! Hallelujah! Now we can take on the long laundry list of injustices people experience in their next 80 years!"
No! They'll go after birth control. And you have just illustrated that beautifully.
If we are looking for allies in the fight against climate change, hunger, lack of medical care, war, or for helping victims of racial injustice or ethnic cleansing, we need to look elsewhere.
Respect for the souls of others: scandal
2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor's tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.
2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep's clothing.86
2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.
Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."87 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,88 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.
2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"89
Abortion is a pretty big issue. Why is it wrong to put that at the forefront?
The Democrats have weeded out almost every pro-life person in their party. Joe Manchin is the closest thing you have left and he’s not much. Your party has done everything in it’s power to force internal ideological uniformity on abortion. And now legal abortion uniformity on the nation. And these are your comrades. The ones you side with. You seem afraid to end abortion, the killing of innocent human life, because hypothetically just maybe someone will try to protect the Little Sisters of the Poor from having to dispense birth control. You have made your stand. You have picked what is valuable to you. And it ain’t an innocent and helpless human being whose life is in the balance. It’s contraception. Even the remote possibility that it could be banned is more important to you than the present evil of abortion. Ok.As I said, sadly, end abortion and many pro-lifers won't say, "Whew! Hallelujah! Now we can take on the long laundry list of injustices people experience in their next 80 years!"
No! They'll go after birth control. And you have just illustrated that beautifully.
If we are looking for allies in the fight against climate change, hunger, lack of medical care, war, or for helping victims of racial injustice or ethnic cleansing, we need to look elsewhere.
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