Catholic Belief: Materialism

[Chief117]

I was just thinking as well, perhaps one of the ways you can help me is to crush some of the preconceived "arguments" I have. I already said that most if not all of my prejudices are rooted in ignorance.

The Bible clearly shows that we were bought with a price--that we are not our own, but we belong to God. Therefore, we are to live selfless lives--and one of the signs of a self-fulfilling life is materialism--the love of things.

I have never been to a real Mass before, but I have been to a Catholic funeral. I have seen many pictures of Cathedrals, and pictures of Bishops (or similar figures) in books and such. So so much materialism. I see clergy figures clothed in gold-like robes and everything is just the opposite of plain and simple--rather, ornate would probably be an understatement.

How does the Catholic church account for this? Why is not the Papal authority living in small buildings, travelling the world making disciples, living off of what they have--just the clothes on their backs? The materialism I see in the Catholic church today seems quite the contrary to what the original church would have been.

Help here?

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I'm not the best for answering this question, but I will give it a shot.

The Catholic Church is the world's largest contributor to the poor, bar none.

As for having flashy robes and churches...well, there is much value in helping the faithful at Mass to feel Heaven. See, we believe Mass is Heaven on Earth. The gold colored cups and such...that is a symbol of Heaven.

See, I told you I am not the best at this question.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

You do know that most of it is donated by the laity right?? Did you know that our Priests, Nuns, Monks take a vow of poverty. They do not receive "salary's" like non-Catholic pastors. (small pension when they are no longer able to say the Mass, but even then, donations keep these retirement homes available to them) They normally share a rectory with other priests ans such, they have no "personal house" or cars.
The money that is given to the Church is distributed around the world, mainly to missions, to feed the poor, starving in underdeveloped nations, the housing of the homeless,as well as feeding. buying of medicines to ship to these countries.
If you seriously look into Catholic Charities, one of the largest in the world, if not the largest, you will see the money at work, even right in your own neighborhood. Catholic charities not only help Catholics, but everyone!!!

 

[Miss Shelby]

It's not materialism. It's a house of God. That beautiful artwork is a way to praise Him and thank Him.

Michelle

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Why is not the Papal authority living in small buildings, travelling the world making disciples, living off of what they have--just the clothes on their backs? The materialism I see in the Catholic church today seems quite the contrary to what the original church would have been.

They do, you just never hear about it. I would suggest you look not only at the Catholic Charities website, but the various order of Dominican, Franciscan, etc.... these men and women go where nobody else will, many are murdered, raped, beaten and tourtured. Funny how the news never covers the lives of these brave and christly people. But then, they don't ask for any recognition either.

 

[Dream]

Chief, a Catholic Church is a house for God. Jesus is literally there.

Doesn't Jesus rebuke his apostles when they scold a woman for spending money on Jesus? (Matthew 26:7-13)

 

[Miss Shelby]

Chief, a Catholic Church is a house for God. Jesus is literally there.

Doesn't Jesus rebuke his apostles when they scold a woman for spending money on Jesus? (Matthew 26:7-13)

Oh.. you are gooodd....

Michelle

 

[Benedicta00]

I was just thinking as well, perhaps one of the ways you can help me is to crush some of the preconceived "arguments" I have. I already said that most if not all of my prejudices are rooted in ignorance.

The Bible clearly shows that we were bought with a price--that we are not our own, but we belong to God. Therefore, we are to live selfless lives--and one of the signs of a self-fulfilling life is materialism--the love of things.

I have never been to a real Mass before, but I have been to a Catholic funeral. I have seen many pictures of Cathedrals, and pictures of Bishops (or similar figures) in books and such. So so much materialism. I see clergy figures clothed in gold-like robes and everything is just the opposite of plain and simple--rather, ornate would probably be an understatement.

How does the Catholic church account for this? Why is not the Papal authority living in small buildings, travelling the world making disciples, living off of what they have--just the clothes on their backs? The materialism I see in the Catholic church today seems quite the contrary to what the original church would have been.

Help here?

Because Jesus Christ dwells in our Churches. If you have a problem with the use of gold and precious stones used to adorn God's house- check out the OT. God asked for this. The ark of the covenant was made of gold and that was to carry stone tablets- which were the word of God- Jesus Christ is God the word made flesh- do you think we should allow him to dwell in plastic?

As the Vatican is concerned, where the pope acutely lives, isn't grand- the Vatican itself was all gifted to the Church over 2000 years. Constantine built grand Churches after his conversion and to this day many grand Churches are built from donations. The pope has no money and does not live high on the hog.

And for the laity, having things isn’t wrong- it is when we are attached to them, this is what is wrong.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Chief, a Catholic Church is a house for God. Jesus is literally there.

Doesn't Jesus rebuke his apostles when they scold a woman for spending money on Jesus? (Matthew 26:7-13)

Wow, DreamTheater, you are coming along nicely.

Excellent...

 

[ukok]

http://www.cafod.org.uk/

this is just one of the Catholic Agencies in England through which our funding brings humanitarian aid to the world.

As has been mentioned, the call to the priesthood and religious life is one of immense humility. Can you imagine never knowing where you would be living for the rest of your life, what you would be eating, never having your own posessions, or being willing to give away everything you owned should it be decided that you are to fulfill your ministry elsewhere, another country perhaps..and don't forget, not all priests are celibate, there are married (Anglican- in the case of my own parish priest) priests who have converted to Catholicism and been granted a dispensation and are thus ordained into the Catholic priesthood...they often bring large families with them, all of whom accept the will of God, rather than self will.

I've never known a selfless church like the Catholic Church, and tell me, if you had the choice to honour God with something beautiful or ugly, how would you choose to honour him...is beauty not fitting for God ?

God Bless.

 

[Chief117]

You do know that most of it is donated by the laity right?

Why, no no I didn't. Like I said, I don't really know--these are preconceived notions that I want explained. It is an honest inquiry.

What is laity?

And I didn't exactly know that the Catholic church was so charitable, but one could only assume that it is. Any real church of our Lord Jesus would be so. THanks for explaining it though!

God Bless.

 

[Benedicta00]

It's not materialism. It's a house of God. That beautiful artwork is a way to praise Him and thank Him.

Michelle

Many were also was divinely inspired and it causes our hearts and minds to be lifted, to contemplate the things of heaven, to know our home is not here. They are objects of hope, something money can not buy.

We as a people are drawn to beauty because God is beauty itself, we desire it and the beautiful things of the world we are attracted to because we are with out God face to face in full communion.

Some people abuse the beauty that is in the world because they seek to fill the void with things, other are at peace with the hope of Christ and see the beautiful things and contemplate God. The things are not what is bad- it is our attachment to them.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

laity= people, congregation, parishioners

 

[Benedicta00]

Why, no no I didn't. Like I said, I don't really know--these are preconceived notions that I want explained. It is an honest inquiry.

What is laity?

And I didn't exactly know that the Catholic church was so charitable, but one could only assume that it is. Any real church of our Lord Jesus would be so. THanks for explaining it though!

God Bless.

Lay people, the faithful, non religious, non clergy, aka... us.

 

[Dream]

Lay people, the faithful, non religious, non clergy, aka... us.

You're saying we aren't religious?

 

[Benedicta00]

You're saying we aren't religious?

LOL.

Cheif,

One more point- the beautiful elaborate glass windows you see where actually made for the peasants who were illiterate, who could not read scripture. The window pictures and even the icons you see tell the story of the gospels and they teach us about the faith.

So I guess there also goes the misconception that Catholics kept the bible away from the peasants and did not encourage reading the bible.

 

[anawim]

I was just thinking as well, perhaps one of the ways you can help me is to crush some of the preconceived "arguments" I have. I already said that most if not all of my prejudices are rooted in ignorance.

The Bible clearly shows that we were bought with a price--that we are not our own, but we belong to God. Therefore, we are to live selfless lives--and one of the signs of a self-fulfilling life is materialism--the love of things.

I have never been to a real Mass before, but I have been to a Catholic funeral. I have seen many pictures of Cathedrals, and pictures of Bishops (or similar figures) in books and such. So so much materialism. I see clergy figures clothed in gold-like robes and everything is just the opposite of plain and simple--rather, ornate would probably be an understatement.

How does the Catholic church account for this? Why is not the Papal authority living in small buildings, travelling the world making disciples, living off of what they have--just the clothes on their backs? The materialism I see in the Catholic church today seems quite the contrary to what the original church would have been.

Help here?

If the Catholic Church sold off everything it owns and gave the money away, everyone in the world would get exactly $2. It's up to us to give to the poor and not to look at what another person gives.

The wealth actually doesn't belong to the church authorities. It belongs to the entire community.

 

[Rising_Suns]

Chief,
To understand why we have those traditions in the Mass, you must understand the Mass itself; why do the priests wear vetments? Why do we burn incense? Why do we do any of these things which seems foreign to the average outsider?

Well, quite simply, because it's found in Scripture. Actually, virtually every word spoken at the Mass is drawn from Scripture, as are many liturgical traditions (see below). The Mass also conforms to the pattern of the early Church in Acts, who “worshipped in the temple and broke bread together” (Acts 2:46);

•Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 --There is incense in heaven which has always been part of the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

•Rev. 1:12, 2:5 --There are lampstands or Menorahs in heaven, which have always been used in the Holy Mass.

•Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 --Priests wear special vestments in heaven, as our priests also wear special vestments in celebrating the Holy Mass on earth

•Rev. 14:4 --There are consecrated celibates in heaven, as there are with our Catholic priests and religious on earth

•Rev. 15:5 --There is a tent or tabernacle in heaven. Tabernacles are used to store the Eucharist at the Holy Mass on earth

--(www.ScriptureCatholic.com)


Here is a quick dissertation on the structure of the Mass. It is CRUCIAL that you understand why the Mass is structured in such a way before you go to Mass;
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33. The Structure of the Mass

The Mass is the most central act of the Catholic Faith and its importance, therefore, can never be underestimated. When the members of the body of Christ unite under one roof, we partake in a truly profound celebration, one that contains far more depth than what can be seen on the surface, as it carefully structured for the sole purpose of uniting us with God in profound ways.

In the beginning there is the Introductory Rites, in which we first recognize the fact that we are sinners in need of God’s grace (this prepares our hearts for entering the celebration with God). With a penitential heart, we humbly ask the Lord Jesus Christ for mercy (Kyrie). Next, we then move from repentance into thankfulness (Gloria), as we turn our gaze to God’s magnificence in praise (we come to give, rather than to receive). Next is the Liturgy of the Word, in which we immerse ourselves into the Scripture readings for the day, hear the homily, and reaffirm our faith as we publicly profess the Nicene Creed. We then take our focus off of ourselves as we extend our prayers to the world, praying for salvation of the world, the leaders of nations, the Church, and our local communities. We then move into the Liturgy of the Eucharist, where we approach the most solemn part of the Mass; the consecration. Up until this point the food and drink on the altar is merely bread and wine, but from the moment the priest pronounces the words of consecration, what is on the altar then becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ. We then receive Christ through this sacrament of Holy Communion, reaching the pinnacle of our our union with Christ at the Mass. We then reflect and meditate on Christ’s Passion, death, and ressurection, while the Holy Trinity is strengthened within us. And finally, we end in glory with the Concluding Rite, praising the almighty name of the Lord with joy as we go back out into the world to live to live as Jesus taught.



So you see, during the Mass we experience many sides to the heart of Jesus Christ in a fullness that is not found anywhere else; we find repentance as we humbly ask for mercy, thankfulness as we turn to God for strength, praise as we glorify His name, and charity as we pray for the world. And all this revolves around our profound union with Christ through the Eucharist, in a single communal act. We in essence, relive the Last Supper all over again; the Priest stands in the seat of Christ as we stand in the seat of His disciples. In fact, we literally can picture the Mass as an intimate dinner with our Lord, one that is profoundly unitive and tremendously essential to our spiritual growth. But moreover, the Mass is where we commune with Jesus through the continual giving of Himself by His sacrifice on Calvary; we are there, with Christ, both at the Lord’s Supper, and kneeling before the foot of the cross.

 

[Lifesaver]

The Bible clearly shows that we were bought with a price--that we are not our own, but we belong to God. Therefore, we are to live selfless lives--and one of the signs of a self-fulfilling life is materialism--the love of things.

Everything that was created is good. To deny that is to say that God created something evil. Therefore, there is nothing evil in any of those things, as long as they are not inordinar

I have never been to a real Mass before, but I have been to a Catholic funeral. I have seen many pictures of Cathedrals, and pictures of Bishops (or similar figures) in books and such. So so much materialism. I see clergy figures clothed in gold-like robes and everything is just the opposite of plain and simple--rather, ornate would probably be an understatement.

we have to give what is best to God.

How does the Catholic church account for this? Why is not the Papal authority living in small buildings, travelling the world making disciples, living off of what they have--just the clothes on their backs? The materialism I see in the Catholic church today seems quite the contrary to what the original church would have been.

The early Church existed in the catacombs for the reason that it was persecuted.

The desire to go back to Christianity's "roots", a poor Church and communal society, constitutes an old and recurring heresy; Franciscan spiritualists, socialists, modernists and even Hitler admitted that he seeked to re-create a community such as had only existed among the first Christians.

 

[RhetorTheo]

Chief, a Catholic Church is a house for God. Jesus is literally there.

Doesn't Jesus rebuke his apostles when they scold a woman for spending money on Jesus? (Matthew 26:7-13)

And don't forget verses 14-16, which immediately follow:

"Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him."

It seems that the teaching to spend a lot money on Jesus "that could have gone to the poor" was the straw that broke Judas's back, and led him to betray Jesus.