Cannot be Catholic and Pro-Abortion

[nitrox314]

I love those stickers. I am not Catholic, but I give Kudo's to all the Catholics out there. They really know how to raise their voices to be heard. I drove by a catholic church the other day and they had a huge gravestone out front. My wife and I stopped to look at it and it said it was for all the children killed by abortion. I am of the idea that you cannot be pro-democrat and a christian since the two really do contradict one another. Sure there are democrats out there that may be pro-life or are not against prayer in schools, but the democrat party on a whole is steeped in these platforms. Might as well call yourself independent is what I think. The bottom line is a Christian cannot be pro-choice, against prayer in school, or anything that goes against the teachings of Christ.

I hear all the time people picking only parts of the bible. Some even have told me they do not like the idea of a hell and they do not believe it, even though they believe in Christ. We as Christians must not be afraid to voice our opinions. So what if someone's feelings are hurt because God does not condone their sinful lives. God will be the final judge. Does not matter what you pick and choose to fit into your lifestyle. In the end we must conform to His lifestyle or perish.

 

[nitrox314]

We also must remember that the Jewish laws were for Jews. The Gentiles were not required to follow most of the old testament laws. We are not God's chosen children. If you are a Jew who is Christian you are still required to follow these laws. We are the, for lack of a better term, red-headed stepchildren. We do not belong. The Jew's belong and we do not. God has extended His grace to us Gentiles. So the clothing rule in Leviticus should not be applicable to gentile christians. This is not picking and choosing, this is what the bible says. The resting on sabbath was also followed by Jew's and not Gentiles. Jesus and his disciples were Jews. They followed the laws. I believe that the Word of God is not faulty in any way shape or form. It is true throughout. I cannot believe it to be otherwise, for if I do I lose faith. I look around and see all that God has created. From DNA, to the perfect math and sciences that govern the universe. All within perfect unison. A God that can create so perfectly would not mislead us with falsehood in His Scriptures. His Word is Perfect. I believe that with all that I am.

 

[CruciFixed]

By the way righteous man........uh

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.

Catechism of the Catholic Church...

THIS is how serious an abortion can be for a Catholic:

Canon 1398 provides that, "a person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication." This means that at the very moment that the abortion is successfully accomplished, the woman and all formal conspirators are excommunicated.

Thus abortion is a serious issue with Catholics..not just serious but is considered EVIL.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Boy, the way some atheists can take bible passages out of context never ceases to amaze me.

I'd argue with you, but frankly, I've argue so many times on this subject that I'm not really interested in taking up the mantle again with an atheist. If you want a good spirited debate, head down to ethics and morality and post this there.

Please be advised that this is a safe haven and that debate is limited to members. For the purpose of this thread, to be considered a conservative in this forum, one must hold to the idea that all life is precious and abortion is wrong. If you do not hold to that belief, your posts are restricted to fellowship posts only and not debate. The safe-haven rule as well as the rest of the site-wide rules for posting at CF can be found HERE. I greatly suggest you read them before posting more.

I speak as a member here as well as a member of staff. I am not pointing out rules to make you feel bad or unwelcome, but giving you a heads up so that you do not run afoul of the rules.

 

[CruciFixed]

I'm sorry if I acted out of line as it is not my position to play the staff member. I just get irritated. Lately I see a lot of liberals and atheists barging in here telling us how we're so wrong for this and that....

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I'm sorry if I acted out of line as it is not my position to play the staff member. I just get irritated. Lately I see a lot of liberals and atheists barging in here telling us how we're so wrong for this and that....

I know...

Tis quite annoying to say the least.

 

[b.hopeful]

I'm sorry if I acted out of line as it is not my position to play the staff member. I just get irritated. Lately I see a lot of liberals and atheists barging in here telling us how we're so wrong for this and that....

Don't feel too picked on ....we liberals get a lot of people telling us how wrong we are too,lol.

 

[nitrox314]

I'm sorry if I acted out of line as it is not my position to play the staff member. I just get irritated. Lately I see a lot of liberals and atheists barging in here telling us how we're so wrong for this and that....

And I thought that we would be left alone... The problem is that there are many trolls out there that just go around trying to start up fights with anyone. Many of these are liberal, and a few are conservative. It makes me quite upset as well. Like that white supremacist who was threatening black college kids. They found out he was a black man. Some people are looking to stir up trouble. I wish they could just let us be and let us talk within our own communities without harassing us. This IS the conservative christian forum and as such, should be a safe haven for us and our views. The Athiests and liberals should stay out or at lease not post baiting comments or non-conservative, non-christian views. If we post in a general forum, ok, fair game. This is OUR place for talking amongst ourselves.

 

[TimMorgan]

And I thought that we would be left alone... The problem is that there are many trolls out there that just go around trying to start up fights with anyone. Many of these are liberal, and a few are conservative. It makes me quite upset as well. Like that white supremacist who was threatening black college kids. They found out he was a black man. Some people are looking to stir up trouble. I wish they could just let us be and let us talk within our own communities without harassing us. This IS the conservative christian forum and as such, should be a safe haven for us and our views. The Athiests and liberals should stay out or at lease not post baiting comments or non-conservative, non-christian views. If we post in a general forum, ok, fair game. This is OUR place for talking amongst ourselves.

The only way this world can improve is if we discuss our differences not hide in our own little worlds like it or not we share this planet. This is directed at liberals conservatives jews hindu buddhist christians. This whole OUR place is ridiculous the only way to improve is together

 

[FreeinChrist]

Folks, I want to remind of a site rule:

Congregation Forums
Forum members who are not a member of that denomination may not debate in that denomination's area. Questions and fellowship are allowed, proselytizing is not.

You should NOT be debating against this group's beliefs. The SoFs are not up yet, should be up soon hopefully, but even so, the site rule does limit debate here.

 

[TimMorgan]

Folks, I want to remind of a site rule:

Congregation Forums
Forum members who are not a member of that denomination may not debate in that denomination's area. Questions and fellowship are allowed, proselytizing is not.

You should NOT be debating against this group's beliefs. The SoFs are not up yet, should be up soon hopefully, but even so, the site rule does limit debate here.

I'm sorry I was out of line I will leave this forum now I apoligize. On the other hand I think your you doing the wrong thing for this forum and for humanity. I repeat the only way we can unite is through communication!!

 

[CruciFixed]

Now everyone should just calm down we're all rational people here Righteous man stated his opinion and you answered I don't think anyone should be insulting anyone else. Everyone here is a human being and deserves respect conservatives, liberals, and atheists. Now i submit this argument only on the assumption that I won't get shouted down for it. Suppose a woman is raped she's 16 she has her full life ahead of her what is she to do give the rest of her life to the rapist's child?

Rarely do women go into abortion clinics with the excuse of rape but even in the event of rape even at 16 she could still consider giving the child up for adoption. Also a tragic situation does not call for an end to a precious God given life. Rape does not need to equal death for an innocent baby. The baby never asked his father to do something so uncalled for.

Two tragedies do not need to come from one. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[nitrox314]

Rarely do women go into abortion clinics with the excuse of rape but even in the event of rape even at 16 she could still consider giving the child up for adoption. Also a tragic situation does not call for an end to a precious God given life. Rape does not need to equal death for an innocent baby. The baby never asked his father to do something so uncalled for.

Two tragedies do not need to come from one. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yes Yes. TimMorgan, I saw one of your posts on another forum thread : "Question". You mentioned how unfair it is that Adam and Eve committed sin and now we all pay for it. Sins of the Father. Is it not also unfair to punish an innocent baby to death for the sin of his father? God does not wish any to die. Jesus says that He knows them in womb (Might have been before they are in the womb). I do not believe, like the Muslims, that a woman who is raped should be punished either. It is not fair. The woman did not ask to be raped, and the child did not ask to be concieved but, as sad as it is, it happens. We do not even punish the rapist with death, so why does the harshest of punishment come upon the innocent child?

 

[AlabamaStreetPreacher]

One can certainly call himself or herself Catholic and be pro-choice. However, being pro-choice is not reconcilable with what we as the Catholic Church believe. Participating in abortion results in automatic ex-communication. It is not that we don't recognize the freedom of the woman and the dignity of her own self-determination. Rather, we believe that the child shares a dignity and value equal to hers and no one has the right to take that away simply because it is within the womb.

+1 for that response. I think you shared my thoughts spot on.

 

[CruciFixed]

Yes Yes. TimMorgan, I saw one of your posts on another forum thread : "Question". You mentioned how unfair it is that Adam and Eve committed sin and now we all pay for it. Sins of the Father. Is it not also unfair to punish an innocent baby to death for the sin of his father? God does not wish any to die. Jesus says that He knows them in womb (Might have been before they are in the womb). I do not believe, like the Muslims, that a woman who is raped should be punished either. It is not fair. The woman did not ask to be raped, and the child did not ask to be concieved but, as sad as it is, it happens. We do not even punish the rapist with death, so why does the harshest of punishment come upon the innocent child?

My thoughts exactly. I know I am not very good with words but you've expressed what I was trying to put forth.

 

[nitrox314]

My thoughts exactly. I know I am not very good with words but you've expressed what I was trying to put forth.

Thanks! You said it pretty well yourself too!

 

[CruciFixed]

Thanks! You said it pretty well yourself too!

thanks

 

[flaglady]

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