Can you morally call yourself a Christian if you vote conservative.

Crowns&Laurels · Jul 11, 2015

Archivist said:
And wasn't it liberals who fought against child labor. Wasn't it liberals who fought for voting rights for women?

But, again, Jesus does not fit into any political category.

Liberals were once slavers. It doesn't really matter what they did, it matters what they do now. And right now they are quite literally on an anti-God agenda. How can one say it's not good to be conservative when they are the main ones upholding Him?

South Bound · Jul 11, 2015

daleksteve said:
Why?

Jesus was the world first liberal or socialist maybe a better term.

OK. I'll bite: How did you come to the moronic conclusion that Jesus is a liberal or socialist? Seriously, which part was it? Was it the pro-life stuff, the anti-homosexuality stuff, the go out and buy swords stuff, the "if a man doesn't work, neither should he eat" stuff? Which?

Come on and put your money where your talking points are and let's see some verses.

South Bound · Jul 11, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Liberals were once slavers. It doesn't really matter what they did, it matters what they do now. And right now they are quite literally on an anti-God agenda. How can one say it's not good to be conservative when they are the main ones upholding Him?

Actually, it wasn't the liberals who were the slavers. It was Democrats who were slavers but, don't forget, in the early part of the 20th century, thanks to progressive propaganda, "liberal" came to mean precisely the opposite of what it did before. "Liberal" has its root word in liberty, because, traditionally, liberals defended freedom and liberty, things such as small government with little power to regulate people, and de-centralized government, so that power was closer to the local level so that government was more accountable.

This is why there is a branch of Libertarianism called "Classical Liberalism", because they are the ones who believe in the traditional tenets of liberalism. Ironically, by the original definition of liberalism, I'm far more liberal than any modern liberal here.

Around the time of Woodrow Wilson's administration, Progressives felt that people were starting to catch on to what they were, which was pretty evil. So they co-opted the name "liberal", even though they were anything but, to try to convince people, "Hey, I'm just like you".

The name persists to this day. That's why, even though "liberal" has the word liberty built into it, they stand for anything but. Rather than liberty, modern liberals stand for the regulation of every part of our lives.

Hope this helps.

pakicetus · Jul 11, 2015

topcare said:
It's you libs that hate freedom and love homo sin.

Not sure if you know this but allowing gays to marry and go about their lives is part of freedom.

topcare · Jul 11, 2015

pakicetus said:
Not sure if you know this but allowing gays to marry and go about their lives is part of freedom.

No it's a part of slavery.

pakicetus · Jul 11, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Liberals were once slavers. It doesn't really matter what they did, it matters what they do now. And right now they are quite literally on an anti-God agenda.

How are they on an "anti-God agenda"? Most liberals are Christians (because Christians in America outnumber everybody else combined by more than two-to-one).

pakicetus · Jul 11, 2015

topcare said:
No it's a part of slavery.

Interesting. What's your definition of slavery then? It must be pretty creative.

Crowns&Laurels · Jul 11, 2015

pakicetus said:
How are they on an "anti-God agenda"? Most liberals are Christians (because Christians in America outnumber everybody else combined by more than two-to-one).

Liberals have their own version of Christianity- in which there is no sacrifice, or discipline, or anything. A belief that costs nothing and is worth nothing.

pakicetus · Jul 11, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Liberals have their own version of Christianity- in which there is no sacrifice, or discipline, or anything. A belief that costs nothing and is worth nothing.

Sounds like a word salad to me.

Crowns&Laurels · Jul 11, 2015

pakicetus said:
Sounds like a word salad to me.

Sounds like the truth to me. What does it take to be a Christian according to liberal ideology? Christ didn't preach all that he preached just so we could do whatever we want without consequence.

Salvation is not unconditional, no matter how much you adulterate the biblical teachings.

pakicetus · Jul 11, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Sounds like the truth to me. What does it take to be a Christian according to liberal ideology?

I'm not an expert but I went to a very liberal church for a few years. They thought being a Christian meant accepting Jesus as your savior and being kind and loving to others.

Christ didn't preach all that he preached just so we could do whatever we want without consequence.

Who ever said he did?

topcare · Jul 11, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Liberals have their own version of Christianity- in which there is no sacrifice, or discipline, or anything. A belief that costs nothing and is worth nothing.

Exactly.

Archivist · Jul 12, 2015

Still waiting for anyone to plain just how the philosophy expounded by Jesus during the time of the Roman Empire fit into modern liberal or conservative philosophy.

And for the record liberals were not and are not "slavers."

pakicetus · Jul 12, 2015

Archivist said:
Still waiting for anyone to plain just how the philosophy expounded by Jesus during the time of the Roman Empire fit into modern liberal or conservative philosophy.

I agree with you: I don't think Jesus' words can prove he would be a liberal or a conservative today. For one thing, he said barely anything about politics, other than "the world is evil" and "pay your taxes" (unless you're Kent Hovind), so we don't know what his policies would be. His words are incompatible with some arguments, though:

— You can't say the poor don't "deserve" welfare when the Bible makes it incredibly clear that they deserve charity—which, if you're on the receiving end, is the same thing (except that charity has far fewer requirements and isn't always means-tested). And if you think the poor are just gonna laze around and exploit government assistance, why wouldn't they do the same thing when they're given charity? You can still follow Jesus and be against welfare for other reasons, like opposition to government coercion, but the arguments that the poor are lazy or undeserving just won't fly.

— You can't argue that the desire for revenge should factor into criminal penalties and still believe all the Bible verses—some of which are much more radical than the ideas of any leftist I know—that preach against revenge and in favor of mercy (Proverbs 19:11, Proverbs 11:17, Matthew 5:38-44, 1 Thessalonians 5:15, Mark 11:25, Luke 6:26, John 8:7, 1 Peter 3:8-9, Galatians 6:1, Ephesians 4:31-32, Romans 12:20-21). It's also quite hard see how a message of incredible forgiveness and mercy fits in with an economy that's extremely harsh to people who were irresponsible or unlucky.

— Then again, I'm not sure you can make saving souls your first priority and support an economy with a lot of rich people or low poverty rates. The poorest countries in the world are all incredibly religious (including North Korea), and the richest ones are usually pretty irreligious. Seems to me, if you want to save people, you should make them all poor.

Crowns&Laurels · Jul 12, 2015

Archivist said:
Still waiting for anyone to plain just how the philosophy expounded by Jesus during the time of the Roman Empire fit into modern liberal or conservative philosophy.

And for the record liberals were not and are not "slavers."

Oh, yes they were. Most black people are liberal because it is historically what they were introduced to- by slavers. The democratic party are the founders of American slavery.

America is founded on the idea that a constitution should be the supreme law of the land, and yet, the Constitution is being sabotaged by the country's own president- an avid liberal.

2PhiloVoid · Jul 12, 2015

daleksteve said:
I say not cause you go against Christs values but it will interesting to see what others think.

I don't think either the liberal nor the conservative sides fully fit the values Christ would like to see implemented.

[Edit: I see some others have already offered the same sentiment. ]

2PhiloVoid

Moral Orel · Jul 12, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Oh, yes they were. Most black people are liberal because it is historically what they were introduced to- by slavers. The democratic party are the founders of American slavery.

Wow. So wrong. You think democrats predate slavery? You think that we didn't have slavery since long before there was an American government that had a use for a political party?

Crowns&Laurels · Jul 12, 2015

Nicholas Deka said:
Wow. So wrong. You think democrats predate slavery? You think that we didn't have slavery since long before there was an American government that had a use for a political party?

Slavery goes back to the beginnings of man. I am speaking of American slavery.

Moral Orel · Jul 12, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Slavery goes back to the beginnings of man. I am speaking of American slavery.

So you're saying that we didn't have slaves in America until after the American Revolution?

Archivist · Jul 12, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Oh, yes they were. Most black people are liberal because it is historically what they were introduced to- by slavers. The democratic party are the founders of American slavery.

Wrong. Most blacks were actually Republicans from the time following the Civil War until the 1950s. You need to learn your history.

Can you morally call yourself a Christian if you vote conservative.

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