CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

William Lefranc · Aug 4, 2019

royal priest said:
In other words, if you stop believing, then you never belonged to Jesus to begin with.
John 6:39-40
"this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Actually no. OSAS (once saved always saved) can be used as a formula to live any which way one wants without being responsible for the way he/she lives. So as a believer, one doesn't simply lose his salvation just because one stops believing. One loses what he has when he walks away from God completely and turns against Him in will, thought and deed, and by deliberately doing the opposite of what he once believed. This process of unbelief, worldly living, hating righteousness takes a long time, but if at the end if one doesn't return, he will probably lose what he once had.

God will not be mocked, what one sows, he reaps,

Hebrews 6:4–6 (NASB95)
4 "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame."

Revelation 3:5 (NASB95)
5 "He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

Hammster said:
John 10 says He gives eternal life to His sheep.

Indeed who are God's Sheep? They are those who enter in through the gate and hear His Voice (the Word) and follow Him *JOHN 10:1-29

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
Hello. Im going to respond, in the only way I know how. I think we all know scripture am I correct?

We know there are verses of warning, verses telling us to continue to grow, and verses of absolute assurance, and others of condemnation. Side by side we can make scripture appear to be contradictory, we can pick and choose the verses that most agree with our sensibilities or we can figure out how they fit together in perfect harmony.

I chose harmony - just so you know. There is a way this all goes together that leaves no question and no contradiction and no ignorance or setting aside of what we disagree with. Some of it we figure out as we are walking in Christ, but the very first thing we must realize is our own nature, and our desperate need of a Savior. Dead enemies of God is what we all were, prior to coming to Christ. Period. End of story - until God...

For anyone who wants to hear a good preaching and teaching on that is here:

When we are dead in sin Christ comes and gets us out of our condition... and of course this looks different for each of us. Some people come to Christ slow and seamlessly, others have a Damascus Road moment (me), and still others - well - I'm sure there's a third group.

The Bible claims assurance in salvation for His people, and I have that assurance. I have the guarantee of my salvation, the seal of the Holy Spirit and He confirms with my spirit that I belong to HIM..

Yet, what that never does in mean I can sin, or become slack. When I need correction I have it, when I need to know and believe without a doubt so I can move the mountains blocking the path I have that, when I need to be reeled in I have that..

In reformed churches that believe in OSAS we hear more about sin than in attendance at non-reformed churches. Which is kind of funny when you think about it, because this easy faith that everyone tells us we have simply doesn't exist. Walk into a reformed church you WILL hear about sin, and the need to repent, and grow and and learn in Christ.

But none of it matters or makes a difference, if you haven't met the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob first.

I was practically a saint before I was saved. I spent more of my day praying than most human beings, more time fasting, less time sinning and more time trying to please the God of this universe only to fall flat and empty handed in recognition that none of it mattered..I was still distant from God and couldn't say with honesty that I knew God..

Now, after salvation, I can say I know God to the limit of my ability and He is truly God.. for the first time I am worshiping in Spirit and in Truth and it makes all the difference in the world.

But to get here you have to desire to know God more than you desire your next breath, you have to be willing to let the whole world see your ignorance, your mistakes, your failures, you have to step out in a faith hoping in the end God will catch you - and when you do I promise you He will!

The Pastor showed us Pauls heart for the lost, willing to give up his very salvation for the lost, and I see myself as a sinner fallen short. A person who lost my first love, and I beg God to forgive me for my sin and lovelesses for my brothers and sisters who are lost and I beg God to give me more of HIS heart that I may do more, give more, be more of what HE desires so that I may Glorify HIS name..

Yet in all this assurance and sorrow for sin I know, that if I end up grabbing too much of this world I can lose it all like Judas, and this causes me to pray more, to fast more, to love more... because I know where I desire to be standing for all of eternity, and that is before the Throne of God worshiping HIM, feeling HIS peace and love wash over me, as I give back to HIM all my love and worship that HE so richly deserves.

None of this is easy, but it is possible through Christ... Gods Holy Spirit might sometimes tell us we are acting like Satan, just like Jesus said to Peter, or He might warn us not to love the things of this world.. but we have the assurance and the faith that these mountains we can move, because HE lives in us and in HIM there is no shame.. that He will keep us in HIS hand like Paul...

It all works together, we check ourselves at the door, we surrender to HIM daily, consecrate our hearts to HIM morning noon and night.. and then we live..

we live as Christians knowing our Lord and Savior, knowing our sins and our failures, our need and our redemption. We aren't afraid, because our King is with us, in us, surrounding us.. so we live as is pleasing to HIM.

And if we don't, we were never once saved, and never in HIM at all.

Our action is never causal to our salvation, Jesus' are. All we do is a result of that in love.. and its a walk we will walk for the rest of our lives. No one excuses sin... but people do misrepresent our beliefs and actions - to what end is unknown to me.

For me I think the problem is when people turn and point people to the words and teachings of men instead of pointing people to the pure Word of God and telling all that have ears to hear that God wants to be your teacher and that the only way we can understand God's ways is to prayerfully ask JESUS who promises us that he will guide us and teach us His Word *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; 1 JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 2:26-27 which of course is also a part of the NEW Covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:11. All these promises of course are conditional on believing and following God's Word in the present tense and continuing to do so by prayerfulling asking God's guidence through his Spirit and seeking him through his Word. God's Word does not contradict itself. If you feel that some scriptures contradict others than this should be a warning to you that it is your understanding of the scriptures that is in error. Many make the mistake of listening to the teachings and traditions of men when JESUS is waiting for you to come to him *JEREMIAH 17:5-8; JEREMIAH 29:13.

Blessings.

Hazelelponi · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
For me I think the problem is when people turn and point people to the words and teachings of men instead of pointing people to the pure Word of God and telling all that have ears to hear that God wants to be your teacher and that the only way we can understand God's ways is to prayerfully ask JESUS who promises us that he will guide us and teach us His Word *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; 1 JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 2:26-27 which of course is also a part of the NEW Covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:11. All these promises of course are conditional on believing and following God's Word in the present tense and continuing to do so by prayerfulling asking God's guidence through his Spirit and seeking him through his Word. God's Word does not contradict itself. If you feel that some scriptures contradict others than this should be a warning to you that it is your understanding of the scriptures that is in error. Many make the mistake of listening to the teachings and traditions of men when JESUS is waiting for you to come to him *JEREMIAH 17:5-8; JEREMIAH 29:13.

Blessings.

Apparently you didn't understand a word I said..

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
Apparently you didn't understand a word I said..

Yes brother I did. Did you understand what I posted in return? If so what do you think I was saying. Only seeking some clarification. Thanks for sharing.

Stephen Douglas · Aug 4, 2019

Ha! I am still waiting to meet the man that has a perfect understanding of all scripture.

Doug

Hazelelponi · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes brother I did. Did you understand what I posted in return? If so what do you think I was saying. Only seeking some clarification. Thanks for sharing.

No you didn't understand me. I said you can, by pulling verses out of context and place, see contradictions. However, there is a way all these verses fit together without any contradictions - and that is how I choose to look at scripture.

I went on to describe how that looks fitting into a child of God's daily life, living for Christ.

So no, you misunderstood every word, when you sitting there twisting my words ..

PS I'm a female. A big hint to that is my name. Its feminine.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

Stephen Douglas said:
Ha! I am still waiting to meet the man that has a perfect understanding of all scripture.

Doug

Hi Doug, only JESUS has a perfect understanding of the scriptures and it is only to him we should point all as we cannot understand God's Word unless He is our guide and teacher.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
No you didn't understand me. I said you can, by pulling verses out of context and place, see contradictions. However, there is a way all these verses fit together without any contradictions - and that is how I choose to look at scripture.

I went on to describe how that looks fitting into a child of God's daily life, living for Christ.

So no, you misunderstood every word, when you sitting there twisting my words and attempt to tell me I don't understand scripture after twisting what i tried to convey in order so you can twist scripture some more.

It breaks my heart when you tear God's Words into bite size chunks so you can dismiss them, in order to lead people into not trusting in Christ for their salvation, so I must leave this thread.

PS I'm a female. A big hint to that is my name. Its feminine.

Sorry sister. Yes as I said earlier I understood you the first time. Did you understand my post to you and if so what do you think it was saying?

Stephen Douglas · Aug 4, 2019

1 Corinthians 13:12 strongly implies that our perception of spiritual realities is greatly impaired until the perfect comes. There are many apparent contradictions in scripture but why wouldn’t it seem to be that way as we look through a glass darkly?

The real contradiction pertains to Christians arguing over the exact meaning of such spiritual revelations. Even biblical scholars cannot find consensus pertaining to exact interpretation. Paul and Peter disagreed.

Discussion of such things is good. Disparaging one another over such things is not.

Doug

Hammster · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Indeed who are God's Sheep? They are those who enter in through the gate and hear His Voice (the Word) and follow Him *JOHN 10:1-29

Yes. It’s what His sheep do.

Gideons300 · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
CAN YOU LOSE SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Let's look at the scriptures. Salvation is condtional on...

FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4, REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 and CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 in the NEW COVENANT, are all requirements for the hope of salvation. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13.

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT, SIN is the transgression of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and through the LAW we have the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11. No one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have by God's GRACE repented of their SINS and CONFESSED them and by FAITH Accepted the FREE GIFT of God's SALVATION *ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 1 JOHN 1:9; EPHESIANS 2:13. According to God's WORD it is only those who are CONINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN that are "UNDER THE LAW" because they stand guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19 and do not know God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2;1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

ARE WE IN A SAVED STATE WHILE CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state before God and can lose their salvation unless they REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.
* HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10; GALATIANS 5:19-21; EPHESIANS 5:6; COLOSSIANS 3:6; REVELATION 21:7-8; TITUS 2:11-12

There are God's Word showing that we can have the assurance of salvation today as long as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word always in the "present tense" (now) and is why it is written we have the hope of eternal life now as we believe and follow God's Word...

TITUS 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

COLOSSIANS 1:22-23 [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

However, it is only those who ENDURE temptation to the END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word that receive eternal life.....

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

JAMES 1:12 [12], Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

God's Word is full of warnings not to depart the faith and all these things are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come.

2 PETER 3:9 [9], The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

What are your thoughts?

May God bless you as you seek him and continue in His Word.

I appreciate your post here, and what you say is true.

However, we may want to look at why so many, despite the clear scriptural warnings, are simply refusing to give up their belief that grace somehow makes our salvation "conditionless".

Is it not because if even a part of it depends upon us, we are in deep doo doo? LOL. Do we not see, we are missing something big, something that fulfills the promises about our salvation being sure and at the same time sees the conditions and yet they do not freak us out?

If it depends upon us, then we are always hanging by a thread of being good, and we all know that those threads sometimes break. Amen?

So what is the answer to this dilemma? The conditions are clear. You have laid the out for all to see. But how many there are who simply stick their fingers in their ears and do not want to hear.

The truth is, without the secret that binds the two beliefs, all of us are vulnerable to losing our salvation. Even staunch legalists, determined to never deny the Lord and to endure to the end, will eventually fall.

Why is this? Simply because we have assumed we are still fallen-natured children of God, slowly trying to become new creatures. But that is not the truth.

We are about to discover who we really are, new creatures. And what is the promise given to us as new creatures with new hearts? That He would 'cause us' to walk as obedient children.

Glory to God! It matters not how many conditions we see in the Word concerning our salvation. If it is no more us that live, but Christ who now lives in us.... through us... AND IT IS.... then our bond with Christ becomes unbreakable and we have total assurance that no matter what will face us in the future, we KNOW He will keep us from falling.

Once we have by faith reckoned our old nature as dead, and put on our new natures, the traitor that once guarded the gate back to evil has been removed and replaced with a fully obedient child of God.

The only question remaining is..... do we really want to be free of the old man in our walks? ,

blessings,

Gideon

Hammster · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
For me I think the problem is when people turn and point people to the words and teachings of men instead of pointing people to the pure Word of God and telling all that have ears to hear that God wants to be your teacher and that the only way we can understand God's ways is to prayerfully ask JESUS who promises us that he will guide us and teach us His Word *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; 1 JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 2:26-27 which of course is also a part of the NEW Covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:11. All these promises of course are conditional on believing and following God's Word in the present tense and continuing to do so by prayerfulling asking God's guidence through his Spirit and seeking him through his Word. God's Word does not contradict itself. If you feel that some scriptures contradict others than this should be a warning to you that it is your understanding of the scriptures that is in error. Many make the mistake of listening to the teachings and traditions of men when JESUS is waiting for you to come to him *JEREMIAH 17:5-8; JEREMIAH 29:13.

Blessings.

And a whole post without God’s word.

Gideons300 · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
CAN YOU LOSE SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Let's look at the scriptures. Salvation is condtional on...

FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4, REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 and CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 in the NEW COVENANT, are all requirements for the hope of salvation. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13.

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT, SIN is the transgression of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and through the LAW we have the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11. No one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have by God's GRACE repented of their SINS and CONFESSED them and by FAITH Accepted the FREE GIFT of God's SALVATION *ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 1 JOHN 1:9; EPHESIANS 2:13. According to God's WORD it is only those who are CONINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN that are "UNDER THE LAW" because they stand guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19 and do not know God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2;1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

ARE WE IN A SAVED STATE WHILE CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state before God and can lose their salvation unless they REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.
* HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10; GALATIANS 5:19-21; EPHESIANS 5:6; COLOSSIANS 3:6; REVELATION 21:7-8; TITUS 2:11-12

There are God's Word showing that we can have the assurance of salvation today as long as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word always in the "present tense" (now) and is why it is written we have the hope of eternal life now as we believe and follow God's Word...

TITUS 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

COLOSSIANS 1:22-23 [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

However, it is only those who ENDURE temptation to the END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word that receive eternal life.....

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

JAMES 1:12 [12], Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

God's Word is full of warnings not to depart the faith and all these things are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come.

2 PETER 3:9 [9], The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

What are your thoughts?

May God bless you as you seek him and continue in His Word.

I appreciate your post here, and what you say is true.

However, we may want to look at why so many, despite the clear scriptural warnings, are simply refusing to give up their belief that grace somehow makes our salvation "conditionless".

Is it not because if even a part of it depends upon us, we are in deep doo doo? LOL. Do we not see, we are missing something big, something that fulfills the promises about our salvation being sure and at the same time sees the conditions and yet they do not freak us out?

If it depends upon us, then we are always hanging by a thread of being good, and we all know that those threads sometimes break. Amen?

So what is the answer to this dilemma? The conditions are clear. You have laid the out for all to see. But how many there are who simply stick their fingers in their ears and do not want to hear.

The truth is, without the secret that binds the two beliefs, all of us are vulnerable to losing our salvation. Even staunch legalists, determined to never deny the Lord and to endure to the end, will eventually fall.

zoidar · Aug 4, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
No you didn't understand me. I said you can, by pulling verses out of context and place, see contradictions. However, there is a way all these verses fit together without any contradictions - and that is how I choose to look at scripture.

I believe basically every believer would say the same thing. Who would agree they are picking verses out of context?

Hazelelponi · Aug 4, 2019

Stephen Douglas said:
1 Corinthians 13:12 strongly implies that our perception of spiritual realities is greatly impaired until the perfect comes. There are many apparent contradictions in scripture but why wouldn’t it seem to be that way as we look through a glass darkly?

The real contradiction pertains to Christians arguing over the exact meaning of such spiritual revelations. Even biblical scholars cannot find consensus pertaining to exact interpretation. Paul and Peter disagreed.

Discussion of such things is good. Disparaging one another over such things is not.

Doug

If your accusing me, I said two things.

1)

Hazelelponi said:
I can say I know God to the limit of my ability

The limit of my ability... I didn't say perfectly. I said I know within my limitations..

its not some grand or impossible claim in this life.

Then I said

2)

Hazelelponi said:
It all works together, all these verses of Scripture work out in our lives perfectly

Scripture does work out in our lives perfectly, and just the way it's intended when we are trusting in Christ and not self.

Also, not some grand impossibility or wild claim.

I'm not rich nor healthy, but I have peace and joy in Christ, just the way God intended.

So again, I'll leave this thread since it's attack all I said and twist my words day.

Stephen Douglas · Aug 4, 2019

No intention of twisting or making any personal accusations here. But you may certainly exercise your free will to withdraw.

Doug

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

Stephen Douglas said:
1 Corinthians 13:12 strongly implies that our perception of spiritual realities is greatly impaired until the perfect comes. There are many apparent contradictions in scripture but why wouldn’t it seem to be that way as we look through a glass darkly?

The real contradiction pertains to Christians arguing over the exact meaning of such spiritual revelations. Even biblical scholars cannot find consensus pertaining to exact interpretation. Paul and Peter disagreed.

Discussion of such things is good. Disparaging one another over such things is not.

Doug

Hi Doug, there is some truth in what you say. The promise are given however for those who seek and ask God to be their guide and teacher *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17. But this of course is all condtional as we turn away from men seek the one who is calling us through his Word *JOHN 8:31-36. It is true however that we will be continually learning God's Word. This is of course what it means to grow in grace and the difference between the milk and the meat.

God bless and thanks for sharing.

zoidar · Aug 4, 2019

Stephen Douglas said:
1 Corinthians 13:12 strongly implies that our perception of spiritual realities is greatly impaired until the perfect comes. There are many apparent contradictions in scripture but why wouldn’t it seem to be that way as we look through a glass darkly?

The real contradiction pertains to Christians arguing over the exact meaning of such spiritual revelations. Even biblical scholars cannot find consensus pertaining to exact interpretation. Paul and Peter disagreed.

Discussion of such things is good. Disparaging one another over such things is not.

Doug

This is a humble post of my liking. Thank you and God bless you!

GraceBro · Aug 4, 2019

I wonder how many people who believe they can lose their salvation have lost it in their estimation? And what did they do to get it back? It seems that only they are the ones that believe they are doing what is required by God in order to obtain or maintain this elusive salvation. Jesus said to be as perfect as your Heavenly Father (Matthew 5:48). How are they doing with this? If one can lose salvation, it means that Jesus' finished work on the cross was not enough and that our sins are still being counted against us despite scripture saying God is not counting our sins against us (2 Corinthians 5:19; Romans 4:8), that there is no longer any sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:17-18), and when Jesus returns it is to bring salvation to those waiting for Him not to deal with sin (Hebrews 9:28). Scripture also says that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 9:22). Therefore, your confession booths, 1 John 1:9ing (taken out of context), short accounts, altar calls, etc., are all bloodless sacrifices God does not require or accept. If you can lose eternal life, it is not eternal. By continuing to make sin an issue we are trampling the Son of God underfoot (Hebrews 10:29) by effectively putting Him back on the cross. If our works of obedience play a role in our salvation then we must still be under the law and Paul was mistaken when He said we are not (Galatians 3:24-25). Furthermore, if there is no law then sin is not taken into account (Romans 5:13). And if sin is not taken into account because we are not under the law, what is it that causes us to lose salvation? And John must have been lying when he said: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:13)." You can never know you have eternal if you can lose it! But, hey, we can't have another endless thread on eternal security if our salvation is secure. We are still immature Christians drinking milk if we are continuing to debate eternal security. God can't grow us and mature us in the grace and knowledge of Himself if we are still uncertain about whether or not we are His children. No wonder the author of Hebrews said, "We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain, because you are dull of hearing. Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to reteach you the basic principles of God’s word. You need milk, not solid food! For everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness (Hebrews 5:11-13)." Grace and Peace

CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

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Psalm 144:1

Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

Psalm 144:1

Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

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loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.

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