Can You Help Me Understand?

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GuitarHero2 said:

Why is there such division? I know the division in beliefs is the flaws of man. just consider that there are about 20 different congregation sand/or religious sects who can't even agree on how to worish their Lord and Savior which to me I find quite amusing lol. I know Christianity is mainly about Christ ("Christ"-anity), but there are still a quite a few things in the bible that don't make a whole lot of rational sense(I might explain more in detail about what this means later), yet again it depends on how one defines reality. I mean for example what happens if somebody never heard the "Word of God" or never had a fair chance to just because they grew up in a family that practiced paganism, Islam, Hinduism, or any other religious group. Would they still go to hell no matter how nice, or moral they are would that be fair and justified. In most religion it just seems membership is much more important than one's personality. Whos the better person the corrupt christian or the moral atheist, who deserves Heaven more, who deserves Hell more? I don't mean to get carried away , if god is all knowing(which he is supposebly) why would he create Satan, evil, etc. in the first place why would he go through all the trouble. It just baffles me, and I suppose it's something nobody could answer fully.

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Hi there!
Wow! You have some really great questions and they are very difficult to answer without prayer and the guidance of clergy but I am going to take a stab at it.
Gonna say a little prayer first
O.K. here goes.

Guitar--just consider that there are about 20 different congregation sand/or religious sects who can't even agree on how to worish their Lord and Savior which to me I find quite amusing lol.
This is nothing, there are several hundred sects in Buddhist.
Denominations based on the bible and that follow the ten commandments comprise all Christian beliefs. Why do they all need to agree when not all people can agree on how they would like to worship. There is a denomination or not that will fit most every person. Most of the differences are not that significant.

Guitar--but there are still a quite a few things in the bible that don't make a whole lot of rational sense(I might explain more in detail about what this means later),

Yes, most of the bible is very deep and requires study most optimally in a church bible study group with clergy.

Guitar--mean for example what happens if somebody never heard the "Word of God" or never had a fair chance to just because they grew up in a family that practiced paganism, Islam, Hinduism, or any other religious group. Would they still go to hell no matter how nice, or moral they are would that be fair and justified. In most religion it just seems membership is much more important than one's personality. Whos the better person the corrupt christian or the moral atheist, who deserves Heaven more, who deserves Hell more?

It is not for me to say who deserves hell. I am sure that God has the capacity to determine the eternal fate of all of us. Personally, I think it is possible for those who do extraordinary good works to be working through the Holy Spirit whether they know it or not.

Guitar--if god is all knowing(which he is supposebly) why would he create Satan, evil, etc. in the first place why would he go through all the trouble.

I think that the Jews have a really good translation of Satan, it is "HINDERER".
Satan is in all those worldly things that hinder us from being close to God. They hinder by tempting us with sin and sins are hindrances to our communion with God. This is why it is so important to go to church and bible study. By doing this, we come back into communion with God and are imbued with the Holy Spirit so that we are not led into temptation.

That God allows Satan to exist helps us to have meaning to our lives. We have choice and free will that allows us to choose Godly ways or sinful ways. This is how we are able to measure the meaning in our lives. It is how our faith is measured as well. Not to give into Satan is one of our greatest victories. How exhilirating it is to overcome sin and stay close to God.

The other day I was comparing my former pagan life to someone. I told him my pagan life was like driving a VW, however, Christianity is like driving a Ferrari. The excitement and power of this vehicle (Christianity) far surpasses any other vehicle (religion or path). There is really nothing like driving one's life with God.

Blessings, Fortuna

GuitarHero2 said:

Why is there such division? I know the division in beliefs is the flaws of man. just consider that there are about 20 different congregation sand/or religious sects who can't even agree on how to worish their Lord and Savior which to me I find quite amusing lol. I know Christianity is mainly about Christ ("Christ"-anity), but there are still a quite a few things in the bible that don't make a whole lot of rational sense(I might explain more in detail about what this means later), yet again it depends on how one defines reality. I mean for example what happens if somebody never heard the "Word of God" or never had a fair chance to just because they grew up in a family that practiced paganism, Islam, Hinduism, or any other religious group. Would they still go to hell no matter how nice, or moral they are would that be fair and justified.

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I am not sure of all God's ways, but I have faith He is good and just and fair. I do believe for young ones, there is a grace of not being accountable. King David says in 2 Samuel 12:23 about his dead baby being in heaven and David going there to be with him one day. If these pagans and ones who have never had chance of hearing, I have faith God is good. If they are not clinging to their sins, hopefully when they are confronted with God, they turn from their evil ways, we are all sinners, we must reject evil to be saved, if not, we will get what sin gets, death. I have faith God is a good and right judge. I used to be a criminal and totally evil, I know He can help save sinners, He is also very merciful for reaching out and changing me and giving me new life.

In most religion it just seems membership is much more important than one's personality. Whos the better person the corrupt christian or the moral atheist,

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Jesus does share that many who call Him "Lord, Lord" will not be going to heaven, pretenders and evil ones do not go to heaven just because they go to church or were baptized at one time. Those who know Him and follow truth and love God and others wholeheartedly and are in His will are going to be with Him. And I don't have all answers about those who have never heard the word of God, but I do my best to share, I personally am involved in outreach evangelism including to criminals. Christians who really love God and others do our best to reach out and share the message, we know time is short.

who deserves Heaven more, who deserves Hell more? I don't mean to get carried away ,

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these only God can really answer, the Bible shares some of these answers, but we need to examine ourselves with prayers and bible and our conscience. the bible does say we are all sinners. God is gracious to reach out to all, I used to be terrible, He is very gracious to offer hope and change my life. I know I did not deserve much at all except evil, I used to be very evil to others on my own.

if god is all knowing(which he is supposebly) why would he create Satan, evil, etc. in the first place why would he go through all the trouble. It just baffles me, and I suppose it's something nobody could answer fully.

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God did not create satan. God created a guardian angel, that angel started worshipping his own beauty and chose to rebel against God. God allows this to go on, and shares that eventually all will be revealed about why and how and what is going on, but God also gives us choice, and even with allowing evil God is still good and right and just and holy, even if we don't understand it all just yet.

I would also like to share a bible study about hell with you. I do not believe hell is a torture fire burning people for billions of years. the Bible says the punishment for sin is death, not billion years of burning, (I believe this is misunderstood concept often). http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/storacle_lessons.asp has a preaching about hell, Click Watch on Cities of Ash

As far as what I was able to interpet from the responses you guys feel that God created the angel Lucifer, who was a servant of god. Then one day God decided to give satan free will and he thus turned on God, because he was egotistic etc. What I don't get though is supposing God created Lucifer, knowing this would happen when giving him free will...would do it knowing everything that would happen of transpire later on. Why is their "such" imperfection in one of God's creation being that your God is supposed to be perfect. I don't understand what the point to anything in this world is what kind of kicks does God get from creatingt he universe and creating a book make a book that barely makes any sense unless you read it a certain way and going through these rituals and fullfilling these prophices for what? If God is perfect and can do anything all he would have to do is snap his fingers and fix everything just like that, and the concept of God knowing everything and knowing our fate has me questioning if we really have free will if God controls the balance of everything. I don't understand why he would create man what is our purpose, to him besides pleasing him which sometimes seems like trying to please a child that can't get his way. I'm just getting so many mixed messages about God through parts of the old testament, new testament, and some of the questionable content in the bible.

GuitarHero2 said:

As far as what I was able to interpet from the responses you guys feel that God created the angel Lucifer, who was a servant of god. Then one day God decided to give satan free will and he thus turned on God, because he was egotistic etc. What I don't get though is supposing God created Lucifer, knowing this would happen when giving him free will...would do it knowing everything that would happen of transpire later on. Why is their "such" imperfection in one of God's creation being that your God is supposed to be perfect. I don't understand what the point to anything in this world is what kind of kicks does God get from creatingt he universe and creating a book make a book that barely makes any sense unless you read it a certain way and going through these rituals and fullfilling these prophices for what? If God is perfect and can do anything all he would have to do is snap his fingers and fix everything just like that, and the concept of God knowing everything and knowing our fate has me questioning if we really have free will if God controls the balance of everything. I don't understand why he would create man what is our purpose, to him besides pleasing him which sometimes seems like trying to please a child that can't get his way. I'm just getting so many mixed messages about God through parts of the old testament, new testament, and some of the questionable content in the bible.

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As I said before, God views freedom and more valuable than preventing all evil. It's really as simple as that. God viewed freedom as good robots as bad. I agree (not that that means anything). My suspicion is, you agree also. Most people have children knowing they will eventually be free to commit evil. And it's not a matter of if, but when. They could prevent it by not having any. But they do it anyway. Thus they are agreeing with God, valuing freedom over preventing all evil.

That's the thing, GH - we're not God's prisoners. He doesn't want to impose His will on us because He loves us too much to do that.

But He sent us Jesus so that we could know Him, on our own terms - He provided the Way and the Truth, and the proof, and from there, allows us to make our own decision.

In countries where Christianity is illegal, or where certain religions are mandatory... is that preferable, do you think?

Okay you guys got me ther even though I still don't fully understand why a loving god would create evil in the first place. The main point is why did God even create humanity and why did he create such things such as evil, pain, suffering, arrogance, hatred, sin, etc. It still is hard for me to comprehend a loving God doing this. I can understand free will may have a factor in this of course, but why does your God make things so complicated, I mean the Bible seems to have so many contradictions, and like I've said time and time again gives people mixed messages. Why is he sometimes so unfair and unjust, for example why do innocent people suffer under a compassionate diety. (I'll probably get a mountain of comments stating thats god's the truth, and is justice and we deserve to got to hell etc.) Anyways, my point is what is the prupose of our existance. How do you know that you're right and what happen's if you happen to be wrong christians, and have to face the wrath of another religion? Why are you convinced that you are right and the rest of the world is wrong? How about people who lived before Jesus and for example never heard Jesus's words or tecahings what becaomes of them is it possioble for them to go to Heaven? According to the Bible(this question I suppose is mainly for creationists), taking the OT by literal interpretation, God created everything and all of the creatures approx 6000 years ago. Yet facts shows that the universe has been around for billions of years and there have been many millions of years before man, such as bacteria and other various micro-organisms, dinosaurs, etc. how would you explain why they would exist, and what aruments do you have against evolution. Being for example the evolution of micro-organisms seems to be pretty much proven while the theory of evolution itself has lots of arguments and evidence towards it. I just want to hear you opinions on this controversial topic. I suppose people who believe in thestic evolution can also share their thoughts if they wish.

what happens if somebody never heard the "Word of God"

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Romans 2 says that the law is in the hearts of all men and that they will be judged by the law.

or never had a fair chance to just because they grew up in a family that practiced paganism, Islam, Hinduism, or any other religious group.

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Exodus 20:5-6 says that the sins of the father will go to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but that God will show love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

When a father raises his children to hate God, then the children will suffer. Yet God's word can create faith even when spoken in hate by the father, so it is not like the children did not get a chance.

Whos the better person the corrupt christian or the moral atheist, who deserves Heaven more, who deserves Hell more?

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The good Christian, the corrupt Christian the moral atheist, the immoral serial murder - they are all the same. None of them are better then the other. They all share the same problem - SIN. They are all seperated from God through sin and cannot inherit heaven unless they have faith that Jesus nailed those sins to the cross. If you reject that, then you reject heaven.

if god is all knowing(which he is supposebly) why would he create Satan, evil, etc. in the first place why would he go through all the trouble. It just baffles me, and I suppose it's something nobody could answer fully.

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God didn't create evil. God created Lucifer. Lucifer, the angels and Adam and Eve were not sealed in their faith. IOW: He created them with Free Will to choose evil or good. As for WHY he did this...no one knows. What we do know is that out of all this evil, God shows us his mercy, love and kindness that while we were yet sinners, he gave his only son to take our place and receive the ultimate punishment for our sins so that we wouldn't have to suffer.

The things of God are far to vast for our little brains. What we know for a fact is his undying love for us, his mercy, and kindness. We know he created us and was willing to suffer the penalties we deserve in order to keep us safe.

Yet still, some reject that and do suffer the ultimate punishment for all eternity.

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Oh, and there is division within the church because of sin. Man's sin tends to want to make him "god" over the Bible. Thus, men end up with differing doctrines and are divided.

We have faith, the scientists have NO EVIDENCE.

But as one evolutionist said to his students, "Keep the faith, we will find hard proof soon."

MikeMcK said:

Paul...Romans...every man...external witness of creation...internal witness of conscience...no man has an excuse...blah blah blah...same answer as the other 10,000 times you guys have asked this question in the last three days.

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Ridiculous post. Pay him, and it, no mind.

Confess said:

We have faith, the scientists have NO EVIDENCE.

But as one evolutionist said to his students, "Keep the faith, we will find hard proof soon."

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Hey if that works for you than fine, even though it seems to be a bit close-minded, but hey it's your religion.

GreenMunchkin said:

Ridiculous post. Pay him, and it, no mind.

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I'm not. I've already edited my post out so as not to get involved.

Honestly, they keep asking the same questions over and over and ignoring the answers they get.

It's getting a little tiresome.

GreenMunchkin said:

Ridiculous post. Pay him, and it, no mind.

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Don't worry, I know it is, but thanks for the tip.

GH, people do have varying beliefs.

What was called "a day", could have been a day, a week, a decade, a million years, etc. Their way of measuring time was very different to our own.

But the issue of evolution is just such a minor issue, in comparison to Jesus. He alone is what Christianity is based on.

GreenMunchkin said:

GH, people do have varying beliefs.

What was called "a day", could have been a day, a week, a decade, a million years, etc. Their way of measuring time was very different to our own.

But the issue of evolution is just such a minor issue, in comparison to Jesus. He alone is what Christianity is based on.

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I honestly wasn't making a big deal about it, compared to the other things in my posts. It was more to do with being curious with how people felt about it. I wouldn't let that get in the way of becoming a christian if I was inspired to be.

MikeMcK said:

I'm not. I've already edited my post out so as not to get involved.

Honestly, they keep asking the same questions over and over and ignoring the answers they get.

It's getting a little tiresome.

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Who is "they"? The person asking these questions is an individual, not one of a "they".

As Christians, it's our duty to witness to people - especially ones who are asking genuine questions.

If you find it tiresome, you are entirely free to give the thread a wide berth. Ya know? God bless

There are still a few questions in my posts that alot of people haven't touched yet, and I really do encourage people at least give their opinions or their personal views on these matters.