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Why are you people so ignorant of so many things? Why can't you just take God's word as truth? You people have been brainwashed...
Gluadys, I have already explained why I take Genesis as a truthful account of our origins.
Gluadys, you said this (foolishly): Does the normal process of human reproduction exclude God? Does it require an action outside of nature to unite a sperm with an egg to develop into you?
I expect you will answer "no". So then, are you or are you not, a creation of God?
Evolution is a similarly natural process. So how does it exclude God?
I respond: What kind of a comparison is this!? LOL.
God is the God of nature. He is not restricted to it.
When it comes to alleles, they offer you no evidence for evolution.
Their migration across generations just causes variation.
Gluadys and others, why don't you just give up on the Bible then?
As for the weekly cycle.. why did God then tell the Israelites to work six days and then rest every seventh day as a sabbath? And then He gave them the example of His own creating in six days and ceasing that work on the seventh day... God did not expect the Israelites to work a six thousand years or more, then take a break for a thousand years... in other words, He told them the truth about creation again, and did not lie to them. If you deny this, you are calling God a liar, not me.
So which did God speak? Did God command the Israelites to observe the Sabbath because He created the heavens and the earth in six days and rested on the seventh, or did God command the Israelites to observe the Sabbath because He rescued them with an outstretched arm from Egypt? And if He did both, why is the second part missing from Exodus and the first part missing from Deuteronomy? Wasn't accurate recording important? Did Moses run out of paper or ink?
The message is surely parallel to Deuteronomy: as the Sabbath is a commemoration of God's mighty work in redeeming Israel in Deuteronomy, it is a commemoration of God's mighty work in creating the heavens and the earth in Exodus.
not that God worked six (and not seven and not five) days and stopped, so you too must work six (and not seven and not five) days and stop.
But oh no! Jesus Himself is saying that not only is God working today, God has never rested! Have fun.)
Firstly, it completely ignores the fact that there are two quite different versions of the Ten Commandments, and in one of them the Sabbath gets along perfectly fine without a single mention of creation. Secondly, it ignores the fact that the seventh day is very different from the first six, and therefore an exact correspondence would require the Israelites to observe Sabbath for the rest of their lives, not just on one day before resuming work for the next week.
And note that I have not condemned the Bible. Indeed I have quoted the Bible, which means that I have had to assume beforehand that it is authoritative, to condemn your views. Believe it or not, not everybody who disagrees with you is a Bible-burning heretic!
The fact of the matter is, the seventh 'day' not seventh 'age period' nor anything else is mentioned. The example that God gave them of ceasing from their labours on the Sabbath because He too ceased on the seventh day, proves that what Moses had written in Genesis 1 is literal history. Question: Why would it be so hard to believe that God made it all in six 24 hour periods? Remember the 'evenings, mornings'? Or are you going to put a modern long ages spin to it? If you do, you are violating the intention from the language used.
Yes. In seven literal days. If it were longer, God could have told the Israelites plainly.. I'm sure they were not intellectually disabled.
Actually, that is exactly what the Israelites were told to do. Remember the punishment for violating the sabbath?
They had to cease from work on the seventh day, not a seventh day. But the fact is, the whole of the ten commandments were for Israel alone, and were a part of the Old Covenant.
Going off track a little here... what do you say about the creation of Eve? She was literally made from one of Adam's ribs, right? God did not evolve her over long periods. He did not evolve anything. Evolution is fantasy land imaginings, not based in history, never observed, and totally unsupported by scientific facts. Why do you think the evolutionists get so excited over the smallest fragment that may help their hypothesis (I won't call it a theory, it is not), huh? And then of course they are proved wrong, usually by their fellow evolutionists...
Hahaha! You think you have stumped me? God doesn't need rest. He neither grows tired nor is weary. At the end of the creation days, God simply ceased from that activity. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Do you understand the meaning of 'finished'? Or is that figurative to you too? Creation was complete at the end of the six days and was very good. Plus, if there had been long spans of time between days, the plants and animals that share a symbiotic relationship would have hard a very hard time surviving...
Wrong again. In Chapter 5, verse 15 of Deuteronomy, the addition of the reason for keeping the sabbath was the deliverance from Egypt. If you read carefully, you will see that it was about mercy for the 'strangers' and the animals. The original version was copied, remember? That was the one that was to be observed and for the same reasons.
The seventh day from the creation account surely does not conclude that it ended. However, the rotation of days in the week has existed the way it is from a long ways back, and from many peoples. Israel in particular got the commandment from God's example that He Himself gave them from the creation week. To deny this is ignorance.
Not accepting the Bible for what it says is called 'twisting' it. The enemy of mankind and God only cares if you disbelieve the words contained therein. Burning it or twisting it serves his purpose all the same.
The fact of the matter is, the seventh 'day' not seventh 'age period' nor anything else is mentioned. The example that God gave them of ceasing from their labours on the Sabbath because He too ceased on the seventh day, proves that what Moses had written in Genesis 1 is literal history.
Question: Why would it be so hard to believe that God made it all in six 24 hour periods?
Remember the 'evenings, mornings'? Or are you going to put a modern long ages spin to it? If you do, you are violating the intention from the language used.
Yes. In seven literal days. If it were longer, God could have told the Israelites plainly.. I'm sure they were not intellectually disabled.
Actually, that is exactly what the Israelites were told to do. Remember the punishment for violating the sabbath?
They had to cease from work on the seventh day, not a seventh day. But the fact is, the whole of the ten commandments were for Israel alone, and were a part of the Old Covenant.
Going off track a little here... what do you say about the creation of Eve? She was literally made from one of Adam's ribs, right?
God did not evolve her over long periods. He did not evolve anything. Evolution is fantasy land imaginings, not based in history, never observed, and totally unsupported by scientific facts.
Why do you think the evolutionists get so excited over the smallest fragment that may help their hypothesis (I won't call it a theory, it is not), huh? And then of course they are proved wrong, usually by their fellow evolutionists...
Hahaha! You think you have stumped me? God doesn't need rest. He neither grows tired nor is weary. At the end of the creation days, God simply ceased from that activity. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Do you understand the meaning of 'finished'? Or is that figurative to you too? Creation was complete at the end of the six days and was very good.
Plus, if there had been long spans of time between days, the plants and animals that share a symbiotic relationship would have hard a very hard time surviving...
Wrong again. In Chapter 5, verse 15 of Deuteronomy, the addition of the reason for keeping the sabbath was the deliverance from Egypt.
If you read carefully, you will see that it was about mercy for the 'strangers' and the animals. The original version was copied, remember? That was the one that was to be observed and for the same reasons.
The seventh day from the creation account surely does not conclude that it ended.
At the end of the creation days, God simply ceased from that activity. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Do you understand the meaning of 'finished'?
However, the rotation of days in the week has existed the way it is from a long ways back, and from many peoples. Israel in particular got the commandment from God's example that He Himself gave them from the creation week. To deny this is ignorance.
Not accepting the Bible for what it says is called 'twisting' it. The enemy of mankind and God only cares if you disbelieve the words contained therein. Burning it or twisting it serves his purpose all the same.
I did. So have faith! And wisdom. (Sometimes the former has to give way to the latter. XD)Ugh, I'm really really getting sick of this evolution/creationism "debate." (if you can even call it that...)
I don't have the patience that you guys do. So kudos to you, gluadys, shernren, mallon, and vance. Keep doing what you're doing. Have you guys ever actually seen an anti-evolutionist change their position?
Ugh, I'm really really getting sick of this evolution/creationism "debate." (if you can even call it that...)
I don't have the patience that you guys do. So kudos to you, gluadys, shernren, mallon, and vance. Keep doing what you're doing. Have you guys ever actually seen an anti-evolutionist change their position?
If we go back far enough, I would say a large number of us were YEC at some point, at least nominally since we were raised to believe that way. For me, as soon as I began to look at the evidence as objectively as possible, it became dramatically clear that ALL the evidence was pointing straight to evolution and an old earth. Luckily, by that point, I had already had significant education in the ANE cultures and literature and had come to realize that the early parts of Genesis could not have been intended as strict literal historic narrative, and that the text was actually neutral on the subject of the HOW and WHEN of God's creative work. So, I was able to accept the evidence with much less bias and simply see anything that happens as "how God did it".I was raised YEC, and came to believe it. But eventually, the baloney just piled too high, so I moved on to OEC (omphalos advocate), and eventually, to EC.
I cam to be baptised later in life (I was 24), and so I was never YEC. So, I have a hard time understanding why YECs are so adamant about their literal position.If we go back far enough, I would say a large number of us were YEC at some point, at least nominally since we were raised to believe that way. For me, as soon as I began to look at the evidence as objectively as possible, it became dramatically clear that ALL the evidence was pointing straight to evolution and an old earth. Luckily, by that point, I had already had significant education in the ANE cultures and literature and had come to realize that the early parts of Genesis could not have been intended as strict literal historic narrative, and that the text was actually neutral on the subject of the HOW and WHEN of God's creative work. So, I was able to accept the evidence with much less bias and simply see anything that happens as "how God did it".
That's a point I hadn't previously considered. It's easy to get caught up in discussions with one particular individual and forget that others may just read the discussion without necessarily posting in it. Good point. Then again, you can only write the same responses to YEC's so many times before it becomes a nuisance.Actually, yes, a number of times. If I recall, I think Shenren came in as a YEC (but I could be thinking of someone else entirely). EDIT: I see that Shenren just "raised his hand" in response to the same post.
More often, what happens is that there are people in the "audience" (there are many watching these discussions) who are in a crisis of faith regarding these issues. They have come to review the evidence for evolution and find it convincing, but they have been raised (brainwashed?) with the idea that "if evolution is true, Scripture is false" and are now doubting the very Gospel message! I have gotten numerous PM's over the years thanking me for getting the message out that you need not abandon your Christian faith just because you are entirely convinced that evolution happened.
For that reason alone, this discussion is worth it.
You're telling me! :0)That's a point I hadn't previously considered. It's easy to get caught up in discussions with one particular individual and forget that others may just read the discussion without necessarily posting in it. Good point. Then again, you can only write the same responses to YEC's so many times before it becomes a nuisance.
Haha, maybe, but still..... I mean, after you`ve written out the same thing 100 times, it only makes sense to start copying and pasting it anyways.You're telling me! :0)
Actually, I have gotten smart and have some basic stuff "canned" for re-use later if the need arises. Is that cheating? :0)
I don't get the "and so". How does being baptised later in one's life rather than earlier shield one from fundamentalism?I cam to be baptised later in life (I was 24), and so I was never YEC. So, I have a hard time understanding why YECs are so adamant about their literal position.
I think it could help because he could think for himself, rather than simply be "brought up" to believe a certain way. But, as you are alluding, PLENTY of people are equally susceptible to such indoctrination regardless of age!I don't get the "and so". How does being baptised later in one's life rather than earlier shield one from fundamentalism?
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