Can you explain-not mentioning the Name?

when i used to go to hebrew school or temple, people told me that if it is not a permanent text (a letter, a note, anything other than the torah, the haftorah and the gates of prayer) you could not write it out, in anything temporary you were to use G'd.

when i was in 4th grade in school i gave a presentation on passover to my class. the teacher gave me an in school suspension for omitting letters in my report (the teacher gave me carp all year until my parents figured out what was going on and they pulled me out of the school). i never told my family about getting suspension over the way that i wrote G'd and this teachers reaction.... i internalized what she said about it though. she said "check your religion at the door, nobody likes jewish kids who try to convert everyone else." she said this to a 9 year old!

it hurt. and it made me start writing out His name..

The source of the tradition is this:

Exodus 20:7

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

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So to keep the commandment and avoid idly using the name of the Lord the practice is not to use it at all by not spelling out the vowels (Which is also traditional because Biblical Hebrew doesn't contain vowels).

Though its the thoughts and not the actions that count, so I doubt very much that a 9 year old child forced to include vowels is taking the Lord's name in vain.

Oh, and for explanation in the Hebrew context "vain" means to treat it as trivial or casual. One does not casually use the name of the Lord, because HaShem hears it.

Peace

Amen Talmid. God knows the heart of every man. I used to write G-D but then I realized look, I know that I wouldn't take the Lord's name in vain and I respect Him very highly. And I have the liberty to write out God. He is my judge not man. Plus it was becoming a stumbling block for non-Messianics because they wanted to know why in the world did I write G-d. So I decided to stop and just write God.

Missy

"Plus it was becoming a stumbling block for non-Messianics because they wanted to know why in the world did I write G-d."

I actually find it to be a good conversation starter... hehehe.

LOL Simchat, So did I until people started having a fit about it. It would be a topic not even about Judaism and because I wrote G-d, they had a fit. Not here on this site but on others.. and since it caused a problem and people would get all off topic simply because I typed that.. I decided it was just to much of a stumbling block. Because even after I explained several times why I did it, they still had a fit.. LOL!

I just opted not to do it here either so it wouldn't cause a problem within the threads about people stopping to ask me this that and the other and then not liking the answer and snapping out.. LOL!

Some people just can't accept what is different and to keep the peace I just decided not to be a stumbling block.

Missy

Susan I think your avatar is now extremely cute.

I wanted to dig deeper on that "take in vain" thing, since I didn't feel quite right about simply calling it "casual." I wish I knew Biblical Hebrew better but going off definitions in dictionaries... here is something, anyway.

The word supposedly comes from a root related to destroying. Or as Strong's more eloquently puts it:

From the same as H7722 in the sense of desolating; evil (as destructive), literally (ruin) or morally (especially guile); figuratively idolatry (as false, subjectively), uselessness (as deceptive, objectively; also adverbially in vain): - false (-ly), lie, lying, vain, vanity.

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So other possible meanings might be:

Make God into what you want him to look like (idolizing)
Consider God useless or deceptive
Soil God's name (/reputation) by your actions
Speak evil of God
Make his name mean nothing to people

the leaving letters out of the word GOD is a superstition that has arisen connected to not taking the name of God in vain.

Remember what Christ said concerning murder? Same can be applied here.



Funny though that the O is left out of God which is not the NAME of God but a description of what he is, but the NAME Yashua is thrown around quite freely. Why is that?

i spell it Y'shua, thank you.

Well one reason Yeshua's name is used often is that it's also a common name, it's Josh in English. To me that is symbolic of how God really became one of us.

ruhama: my point is that people superstitiously avoid spelling out "God" and yet have no compunctions about spelling out the name Jesus or Yeshua - the NAME of God.

Br. Max,

If you will notice, I do not spell out the name "j e s u s" either.

It has influences and is possibly purposefully mistranslated in the Greek from the Aramaic. Granted, it may have been simply a misguided individual that coined "Ieezues" (healing Zues) to name the messiah, however, I personally feel it was done with paganistic intent.

As well, the English word "g o d" is derived from the babylonian sun diety. In an attempt to keep our speech free from such things, we use the dash. It is also a symbol of respect for some.

Shalom,
Yafet.

simchat:
You have sadly been misinformed. The Babylonian word for God is 'ilah.

GOD is from the German word GOT which means SUPREME DEITY. Interesting that the word comes from the German. Could it be because the Angles and the Saxons BOTH were Germanic peoples? God is the English equivalent to the Hebrew Elohim - Sovereign deity. If you are going to link God with Baal-gad you might as well link Elohim and Allah.



ALSO - Jesus is derived from the Latin IESUS which is from the Greek Iesous. Someone really had to stretch to get Zeus into the name Jesus. Its sad that people in ignorance will say such things in order to sustain their misguided beliefs that the Body of Christ was corrupted.

The Greek name Iesous

When the Greeks wanted to turn a Hebrew name into a Greek name there were two ways to bring it across the language barrier. One way was by translation which tried to capture the meaning of a word ... but in the process, lost it's sound. The other way was by transliteration which tried to capture the sound of the Hebrew word but in the process, lost it's meaning. These are the four steps or problems in transliterating the Hebrew letters in the name Y'-Sh-U-A (yod-shin-vav-ayin) to Koine Greek.
 The first Hebrew letter YOD has a ""YE"" sound. Unfortunately, the Greek language does not have a letter nor a diphthong that has the "Y" sound as in YES! The Greek solution was to pair the two letters IOTA-ETA to produce the sound ""EE-AY"" which was deemed to be close enough to the Hebrew sound "YE."
 The second Hebrew letter SHIN has the "SH" sound. This was an even bigger problem because the "SH" sound does not exist in Greek. The Greek solution was to employ the "S" sound made by the letter SIGMA.
 The third Hebrew letter Vav has a "U" sound. The Greek diphthong "ou" OMICRON-UPSILON was an exact match because it has the same "OO" sound.
 The fourth Hebrew letter AYIN has the "AH" sound. According to the Greek rules of grammar, masculine names never end in a vowel sound and when they do the name should always be closed with the letter "S" whenever possible. The Greek solution was to drop the final "AH" sound and close out the name with an "S."
 These steps produced the name ""Iesous"" which is pronounced "EE-AY-SOOS."

The Babylonian word for God is 'ilah

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Unfortunately, you did not read my post very closely. I stated the babylonian sun diety is transliterated into the English as "g o d". As well, if one studies further they will also find that the mood diety of babylonian culture can be transliterated into the English as "l o r d". While you are correct, "g o d" can also be found in the German, it too is derived from the babylonian culture. "g o d" comes from the German "Gott" and further back we find it in scripture as another name for Baal. In some European nations they call the Sun by the name of "Gud", "Gudh", "Goth".

Thus, the Jewish use of these words places a dash in the vowel.

Now, while I appreciate your copy and paste from what I assume to be a website concerning the origins of the name "jesus" I will post later some Grammatical scholarly notes showing the specifics of WHY Ieesous (prounounced I-ee-Zues) was chosen to mistransliterate from the Hebrew to the Greek.

Shalom,
Yafet.

Simchat: read what I said AGAIN - baal-gad. I point out GAD is used by the Babylonians. Gott is not GAD. Similar and comparable, but there is no evidence that the Gott and GOD came out of GAD any more than there is that ELOHIM comes from ALLAH.


what I gave you was a study on the origins of the name JESUS which is the English of the Latin IESUS of the Greek IESOUS. I can post a more in-depth study but you will not of course accept it since it will refute your belief that ZEUS is some how included in it. Rest assured that if the moderators do not remove your posts claiming the paganization of the Christian faith, and even if they DO, I will be here to refute those claims with history and accurate research.

OH and the pronunciation of Iesous is "EE-AY-SOOS." SOOS not Zeus. anyone who knows any LATIN or greek can tell you that!!

Please do post what you have that claims the ZEUS pronunciation I'd like to look at that website.

I actually have to agree with Br Max here Simchat, there was no Z pronunciation for sigma. The sigma did, however, frequently represent a shin in Hebrew. The translation Iesous is really a fairly logical hellenization of Yeshua: Ies- for Yesh and -ous for a male person.  A good reference for this is the LXX where you see how a bunch of Hebrew names actually are transliterated into Greek. Anywhere you see Yeshua in the OT (and, I think possibly Yehoshua) it comes out as Iesous as well.

Zeus - pron. Dzeyus

Yesous - pron. Yeisoos

Also on a related note, in koine pronunciation, "us" would be mistaken for "ois" not "ous."  (although Dz would be softened to Z).  U was pronounced like the French U (or a V).  OU was pronounced like the English OO only.

On the Babylonian/Gott thing, on the other hand, it is possible that the two are etymologically related, since Indo-European influences reached as far as England and India. 

"Gott is not GAD."

As Alexander Hislop points out in the book: The Two Babylons
Gott is derived from Gad, as the Indo-European culture birthed much of what we know as the English states.

Gott is not literally Gad, but Gott is derived from Gad... and thusly, 'god' is derived from Gott. One can continue to then trace Gad even further back to Nimrod. You can also go forward and trace Gad to Mithra then to Gott. It's interesting how all of these sun dieties find their origins in one another... it's just a giant circle.

at this site you can read a good portion of Hyslop's book:
http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/00index.htm

and finally, I present to you here a study published by Alex Garcia concerning Gad/God/Gud etc. While I may or may not agree with all of the conclusions made by the author concerning how we should use his name, it is still interesting to view the historical context of the word "god".

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GAD - GOD, GUD

A prophecy for the end-time is given in Isa. 65:11 wherein our Mighty One warns of the apostasy of His people, "But you are those who forsake Yahweh ... who prepare a table for Gad, and who furnish a drink offering for Meni." - Revised Authorised Version. All commentators agree that Gad is a pagan deity, and so is Meni. Gad is usually interpreted as the well-known Syrian or Canaanite deity of "Good Luck" or "Fortune", and Meni the deity of "Destiny". This Gad is written in the Hebrew as GD, but the Massoretes afterwards vowel - pointed it, adding an "a", to five us "Gad". However, we find other references in Scripture to a similar deity, if not the same one, also spelt GD in the Hebrew text but this time vowel - pointed to read "Gawd" or "God", in Jos. 11:17, 12:7, 13:5, where we find: "Baal-Gawd" or "Baal-God", according to the vowel - pointed Massoretic Hebrew text. This Baal - Gawd or Baal - God was obviously a place named after their diety.159

The astrologers identified Gad with Jupiter,159 the Sky-deity or the Sun-deity. Other sources of research also testify of "Gad" being the Sun-deity. Rev. Alexander Hislop wrote, "There is reason to believe that Gad refers to the Sun-god ... The name Gad ... is applicable to Nimrod, whose general character was that of a Sun-god ... Thus then, if Gad was the 'Sun divinity', Meni was very naturally regarded as 'The Lord Moon.' "160 Keil and Delitzsch, Commentaries on the Old Testament, comments on Isa. 65:11, "There can be no doubt, therefore, that Gad, the god of good fortune, ... is Baal (Bel) as the god of good fortune. ... this is the deified planet Jupiter ... Gad is Jupiter ... Mene is Dea Luna ... Rosenmuller very properly traces back the Scriptural rendering to this Egyptian view, according to which Gad is the sun-god, and Meni the lunar goddess as the power of fate."161 Isa. 65:11 tells us than that Yahweh 's people have forsaken Him and in the end-time are found to be serving Gad, the Sun-deity of "Good Luck", and Meni, the Moon-deity of "Destiny".

As pointed out above, this Gad (GD with and "a" vowel - pointing) is probably the same deity as we read of in the book of Joshua, GD with a vowel-pointing of "aw" or "o", Massoretes cannot always be relied on, but we can rely on the Hebrew Scriptures before the vowel-pointing was done. It could well be that the GD of Isa. 65:11 is the same as the "Gawd" or "God" of the book of Joshua. But, let us not try to establish a fact on an assumption. Let us rather do some research on the word "God".

The word God (or god), like the Greek Theos (or theos) is used in our versions as a title, a generic name, usually. It translates the Hebrew The Mighty One (or The Mighty One), El (or el), and Eloah. However, in quite a few places it is used as a name whenever it is used as a substitute for the Tetragrammaton, the Name of our Father, e.g. Matthew 4:4 etc. If the word God is then used as a substitute for the Name, it must be accepted that the word God has become a name again. How and when did this title or name become adopted into our modern languages? Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition, says, "GOD - the common Teutonic word for a personal object of religious worship ... applied to all those superhuman beings of the heathen mythologies. The word 'god' on the conversion of the Teutonic races to Christianity was adopted as the name of the one Supreme Being ...." Webster's Twentieth Century Dictionary, Unabridged, 1st edition, says, "The word is common to Teutonic tongues ... It was applied to heathen deities and later, when the Teutonic peoples were converted to Christianity, the word was elevated to the Christian sense." James Hastings, Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, vol. 6, p. 302, reads, "After the conversion of the Teutons to Christianity the word came to be applied also to the Christian Deity ... Its etymology and its original meaning are obscure, and have been much debated." J.G.R. Forlong, Encyclopedia of Religions, on "God", says, "It is remarkable that philologists are unable to decide the origin of this familiar Teutonic word." Once again, we are strongly suspicious of the rulers of darkness or the Prince of Darkness, having succeeded, once again, in hiding yet another work of darkness. There is much confusion in the European languages between the words gud (good) and god. The Scandinavian languages, like the old Anglo-Saxon, called god gud and called gud (good) god. Calling good god and god gud is bad enough to confuse us. Even worse is that the Old Nether lands languages regarded god as an idol and gud as the correct deity! Jacob Grimm recorded162 this for us, as well as Julius Pokorny and Jan de Vries.163 This inconsistency of spelling confuses us, as it must have confused the people in those early centuries who were still completely or partially ignorant of the True Mighty One and His Name. Jacob Grimm asserts that this was done because of fear, "Such a fear may arise from two causes: a holy name must not be abused, or an unholy dreaded name, e.g., that of the devil, has to be softened down by modifying its form", and then gives examples.162 Other modifying its form", and then gives examples.162 Other scholars have explained that the names of national deities were either hid, or modified, in order to prevent their enemies getting hold of these names -enemies who might use it as a magic word against them. Another reason for this changing of spelling of idols' names was the ritual of abrenuntiatio, i.e. a solemn renouncing of the names of major deities, whenever a pagan became converted to Christianity. One of the three major idols of the Teutonic tribes was called Saxnot. It is well documented how this name was renounced and later on came back in a disguised form, Saxneat. We even found that some idols' name were spelt 17 different ways.

We found further evidence that "gott" or "god" was not only a title, but used as a name too, amongst the Teutonic tribes. Simrock discovered songs wherein "Gott" was used as a beiname for the deity Odin.164 In German, beiname means: surname (or epithet, or appellation). We further found "Goda" as a proper name of an idol.165 Moreover, the same author relates how Wodan, "the name of the highest god" , also called Wotan and Odan, was also called Godan.166 The Teutonic masculine deities each had its female consort or counterpart. Thus we read that this deity's female consort was frau Gode.167 It is commonly known that our Wednesday was named after Wodan or Wotan. In Westphalian we find this day being called Godenstag.168

If the Teutonic pagans called all their idols by the generic name "gott" or "god", shall we continue to call the One that we love by the same generic name/title/or name? Why do we not translate the title The Mighty One (or El or Eloah) with it proper meaning: Mighty One or Mighty? Also, in those places where "God" has become a substitute name for "Yahweh ", shall we continue to invite the wrath of The Mighty One by doing this? He has commanded us that we should not destroy His Name (Deut. 12:3c and 4, KJV or RSV). he is sorely displeased with those who have forgotten His Name for Baal (Jer. 23:27), remembering that Baal really was the Sun-deity. "Therefore My people shall know My Name," Isa. 52:6. "Yahweh 's voice cries to the city - wisdom shall see Your Name," Yahweh 6:9. "For The Mighty One will save Zion ... and those who love His Name shall dwell in it," Ps. 69:35-36. Also read Isa. 56:6-7. If we love Him, we will love His Name. If we love His Name, we will not destroy it (Deut. 12:3c and 4), we will not forget it (Jer. 23:27), we will not substitute it with a title, a generic name, or a name, which had been used for a pagan deity (Exod. 23:13). Also, and even more applicable to this present study, we will stop substituting His Name with Baal (Jer. 23:27 and Hos. 2:16) - that great Sun-deity, also known as Bel, who was the primary deity of Babylon - whether "Baal" applies to the name of the Sun-deity, or whether "Baal" became a title. We are to stop substituting His Name with anything that pertains to a Sun-deity, or even only a title with an idolatrous origin, notwithstanding attempts to justify the "changed meaning of the word".

There is not a single text in all Scripture which prohibits us from calling Him by His Name. They called upon His Name right back in Gen. 12:8 and 13:4, and as "Abraham" again in Gen. 21:33. Abraham called the place in Moria "Yahweh Yireh", Gen. 22:14. Isaac called upon the Name Yahweh , Gen. 26:25. Jacob used the Name, Gen. 28:16. Leah used it, Gen. 29:33 and 35. Moses proclaimed the Name of Yahweh , Deut. 32:3. David declared Yahweh 's name, Ps. 22:22, and so did our Messiah, Heb. 2:12, John 17:6 and 17:26. Finally, Yahushúa promised to do it again, John 17:26b, which is that which is now happening!

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Shalom,
Yafet.

Simchat - what do you know about Alexander Hislop? Are you saying that you accept his teachings?